Sopa/pipa

[Eana Unil]

When I first heard about that I thought "WTH, now the USA totally cracked up". This is just so wrong in every way and also criminal imho.

I support anyone who fights this sh!t, which I tried to do both online and in "real life". I can only hope that it'll help.

[Tymian]

[Mika]

What is it they think they are hiding,
what is it they they think they can hide from,
they are running scared,
their fear has them right where we want them,
an old world tactic,
to limit the flow of communication,
they fuel, give energy, rise,
to the rebellion,
they do the work for us,
while they cower in their bunkers,
we have other ways,
non discernable,
networks far more reaching then this,
they may think this subtle emp burst,
so to speak,
can stop the technology,
what they don't see,

is its not by this we communicate,
illusively,
Pandora's trees have more connections than the human brain,
Eywa is real, Eywa is listening,
and we can hear, see, and feel,
2012

[zongtseng]

In other words, you don't have a different solution, so you're just going to make a rambling philosophical point instead. Guess what, that's not going to fix anything. On the other hand, the whole "people can't own numbers" thing is just dumb, and again totally avoiding the issue.

[Clarke]

Why must a solution be presented? It could simply be that producing art for profit is simply no longer viable. It certainly doesn't seem to be sound with the model based on selling physical copies.

[zongtseng]

No, this is most definitely about piracy, and the fact that people seem to think these days that they have the right to steal the work of others. This is not some sinister plot by people in some back room to control the internet. That type of paranoia serves no purpose. In fact, that sort of thinking (and worse, talking about it) only makes MORE people support things like SOPA, because it sounds like delusion.

Our Congress sucks and is inefficient, yes. But they are still people, and they are not there to shut down the internet and/or control it. Again, that sort of "the world is ending stuff" actually HELPS the people supporting SOPA, because it makes the opposition look, well, silly, to be honest. Thats why I say, you need to produce real solutions, to a real problem, and not ignore it or claim it doesn't exist.

There are also different degrees of violation. Of course an entire website shouldn't be banned because someone posted a video of them dancing to a song. But let's take one of the holy grails of the pirates, TPB. That site has NO purpose other than to violate copyright law, absolutely none. I've used it in the past, yes. But I would have absolutely no problem with TPB being delisted from the search engines, for example. It is 100% for illegal activity. Yeah, there's lots of gray areas in between. But a site like TPB, or many others like it, are obviously about copyright violation (they flaunt it, in fact).

Sites like TPB are the reason this problem even exists in the first place. If people remembered what honesty and integrity was, things like SOPA would never even be thought of, let alone get to the voting stage. If and when it happens, it will be the fault of the criminals that steal, period.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by zongtseng

Thats why I say, you need to produce real solutions, to a real problem...

If the problem you are talking about is piracy, there are none. "Piracy" is fundamentally un-blockable, because it is fundamentally identical to the purpose of networking: exchanging numbers. The fact that we attach value to numbers in differing contexts is completely irrelevant to the computer, who will quite happily serve you the contents of anything at all; all it sees are meaningless numbers.

There are also different degrees of violation. Of course an entire website shouldn't be banned because someone posted a video of them dancing to a song.

That is what SOPA allows.

[zongtseng]

Oh yeah, and the very script running on the ToS homepage right now is exactly what contributes to the silly hysteria. Yes, SOPA will make all webpages look like black screens. That's exactly what it means. That stuff is WAY over the top.

[zongtseng]

And another post, that says absolutely nothing. It's very convenient to call other people's hard work "numbers", I know. But no one is stupid enough to think its ok to steal it, just because the actual medium is numbers transmitted via computer. At least, I hope no one is that stupid.

I knew it was pointless to even try to talk about this here. Its still sad to be proven right though. People thinking like this is exactly why SOPA, or something like it, WILL happen, eventually. Enjoy the censored internet when it comes, and know that it is YOUR fault.

[Human No More]

Anything that is represented as digital information can be represented as a number - indeed, a completely arbitrary number based on different encoding schemes and bases.

The internet can never be completely censored, because there will always be workarounds, and those with the knowledge and skill to disseminate those to others. The harder people work to suppress something, the more available it becomes. in addition, SOPA/PIPA work to suppress on a higher level, by making any business or project a higher risk, preventing new ideas before they get off the ground.

[zongtseng]

Yes, I am well aware of how digital information is encoded and transmitted. My point is that the medium does not make it OK to steal it. Is a great painting just the paper and paint then? Would it be ok to steal that? Or to only pay the artist the cost of the paint and paper? The whole "its just numbers" argument is just an excuse, and one of the weakest ones I've ever heard. You know what makes me really, really angry? The fact that my internet experience may be limited, in even a small way, because of criminals. That's the reality. If people weren't stealing, on a MASSIVE scale, this would never come up.

This bill has NOTHING to do with censorship. Not even a little bit. It is about stopping theft, period. It's a terrible way to go about it, and I don't support it. But I have yet to hear any other ideas. Whether SOPA passes or not, this issue will not go away until some sort of solution is found.

[Aquaplant]

Originally Posted by zongtseng

Yes, I am well aware of how digital information is encoded and transmitted. My point is that the medium does not make it OK to steal it. Is a great painting just the paper and paint then? Would it be ok to steal that? Or to only pay the artist the cost of the paint and paper? The whole "its just numbers" argument is just an excuse, and one of the weakest ones I've ever heard. You know what makes me really, really angry? The fact that my internet experience may be limited, in even a small way, because of criminals. That's the reality. If people weren't stealing, on a MASSIVE scale, this would never come up.

Copying does not equal stealing, get your semantics straight if you want to be taken seriously.

The irony of saying that the argument of other is a weak one, then having none of your own whatsoever is just pathetic. You can't own information, nor steal it because of that. Information isn't a quantifiable product that can be reasonably measured in value, because all things of value must have some manner of controllable quantity, for they are worthless otherwise. It's the perverted concept of effort mixed with value what you fail to realize here.

Anyhow, you are clearly so rabid and clueless that I don't know why I even bother.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by zongtseng

Whether SOPA passes or not, this issue will not go away until some sort of solution is found.

To piracy, you mean? As mentioned, there isn't one. Businesses have to adapt or die, sorry.

[LOVEavatar]

This video will not in any genuine way contribute to the OP and topic... but I found this video hilarious.

Sorry for trash posting.

[txen]

There are certainly some on the anti-SOPA side that are about the freedom to download with no respect to what it is. I'm not part of that group. I understand exactly the point that zongtseng is making and I do agree with him. I'm still not for these bills. It's all about the unintended consequences.

For the most part if the law were applied as intended by the authors I don't see too much wrong with it. The problem is what will happen with the bill in it's current form and some of the more extreme proponents. I want my wikipedia in it's current form. I don't want the possibility of search engines being totally shut down because they happened to pick up a link to a link of a torrent site. those things make no sense.

Make no mistake, we will be getting a bill that contains many of the major provisions of SOPA/PIPA. It's just going to be missing some of the more egregious provisions. Well I at least hope so.