Sopa/pipa

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by zongtseng

Whether SOPA passes or not, this issue will not go away until some sort of solution is found.

To piracy, you mean? As mentioned, there isn't one. Businesses have to adapt or die, sorry.

[zongtseng]

There's no need to apologize to me. For about the millionth time, I don't like or support SOPA either. But everyone sticking their head in the sand and refusing to acknowledge there's a problem is just as counterproductive as a bad bill.

Trust me, these companies won't die. They WILL get a law of some sort put through, if we all don't find another answer first. Apologize to the much-weakened internet we will end up with, not me.

[Sight Unseen]

Originally Posted by Human No More

You may see ToS has joined in the protest...

Awesome!

Originally Posted by Raiden

Those crusty old sh1ts aren't touching my internet.


Old men have no right to lead if they can't accept the future.

^ Indeed, you just about summed up my feelings on this subject.

I get about 100 hits... a week , but I took my site down anyway. I'm doing my very small part to help protest.
SyteUnseen.net

[Pa'li Makto]

TOS joining the fight is a really good move, we all need to be in this together as it concerns every one of us.
It's really worrying that this could happen, which would take out the only true form of democracy that we have.
We all need to spread the word.

[Aquaplant]

Originally Posted by zongtseng

You have no concept of anything. I'm rabid and clueless? Watch yourself. I didn't use personal insults, and if you intend to remain on this site, you will not use them either.

You have no arguments worth addressing, so that is what you get for entering a debate with no substance of your own. You just shout that something is wrong without realizing that the matter is far more complex than what can be summarized as petty thievery.

Oh look at me, I'm a big scary admin with privileges to put you down. An idiot with power is still an idiot none the less, and if you fail to realize that, then go ahead, make my day.

[Theorist]

Well,I emailed my representative, so I did something at least. But I was looking for a pro SOPA thing just to post as a joke on FaceBook. Like one to email your senators about how you support them. But, I couldn't find one, which is good news. But I do have a feeling this won't be a people's choice eventually.

[zongtseng]

Originally Posted by Theorist

But I do have a feeling this won't be a people's choice eventually.

Exactly, and that's what I've been trying to say in this thread. Yes, SOPA sucks. But, unless people realize that there's a problem, and that at least *something* must be done, stuff like this will be passed eventually.

US law and government has always been about finding a compromise. No, no one wants to just give blanket authority, to anyone, to choose to black out every site that mentions the slightest thing that the MPAA or RIAA would object to. However, there are plenty of sites that exist solely for the purpose of trading copyrighted material. If an online store popped up, that sold stolen merchandise, how long do you think it would be before it was shut down, and all the operators arrested? You can claim its "just numbers", or that "information can't be stolen", but you know it is actual, real movies, songs, games, and other things that are being stolen.

All I am saying is that the two sides both need to acknowledge the other side's real, legitimate problem, and work together to fix it. That's the way civilized people deal with things.

[Tymian]

Well copying things is not even remotely compered to stealing, it's just digital copy of one thing Like Spanish supreme court ruled that p2p is a modern version of library I don't want to defend piracy it's bad, but still not that bad/evil as stealing.
btw

"Copying Is Not Theft" animation with Jonathan Mann vocals - YouTube

[Human No More]

That's what google's page was all about; yet people also need to recognise that censorship never works - it can and will always be bypassed.

[Theorist]

Originally Posted by Human No More

That's what google's page was all about; yet people also need to recognise that censorship never works - it can and will always be bypassed.

I agree with that. Stealing movies and games and music online is probably wrong, but putting censorship laws in isn't going to stop people from stealing them. The people who want to will still find a way around it. The censorship laws would hurt the the non-pirates more. It'd be tough to stop pirating, but keep the internet Free.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by zongtseng

US law and government has always been about finding a compromise. No, no one wants to just give blanket authority, to anyone, to choose to black out every site that mentions the slightest thing that the MPAA or RIAA would object to.

The senators do. Hence the commotion.

However, there are plenty of sites that exist solely for the purpose of trading copyrighted material. If an online store popped up, that sold stolen merchandise the output of a replicator, how long do you think it would be before it was shut down, and all the operators arrested?

(I've corrected your metphor.)
A very long time indeed, because extraditions over international borders are an incredible pain. Not to mention it being nigh-impossible to show lost value.

You can claim its "just numbers", or that "information can't be stolen", but you know it is actual, real movies, songs, games, and other things that are being stolen.

Last time I checked, digital information wasn't generally considered "real." You can't steal memory, or magnetic fields, or voltages; you can only clone them. You can't own numbers, or air pressure, or computations.

You can own movies, songs, and games, though. The fact that they are trivially convertible to each other can now never be avoided, and the law must adapt around it or just be ignored. Morality has already adapted.

All I am saying is that the two sides both need to acknowledge the other side's real, legitimate problem, and work together to fix it. That's the way civilized people deal with things.

The problem is, IMO, wasting time and effort sustaining an obsolete business model instead of evolving in light of new technology. The assembly workers didn't ban any sort of mechanical machine because it'd put them out of jobs. The scribes couldn't ban the printing press on the same justification. Why do we treat this case any differently?

[Fkeu'itan]

So you expect companies to make games, movies and artists to make music for free?

[SaphirJD]

We really moving with that year slowly into very Dark Times.

Its not really Sopa/Pipa related.. but to speak about censorship... Megaupload was taken down...

Seriously, do governments do not think for one moment that not everyone uses services for illegal reasons?

But well, i guess it does not need long time until some company buys that domain and tries then to make big business with file storage only against payment... Because what can be used also for free is not healthy for the money addicted system.... *sarcasm*

Really Dark Times...

[Tsyal Makto]

I think there's something to the argument I've come across before that piracy HELPS media sales. People download a piece of music, for example, and might later buy the album, or might tell others about the piece, who might later go on to buy the album themselves. In other words, it's self-sustained advertising.

[Empty Glass]

What does everyone think of this?