Ancient Aliens

[Moco Loco]

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

I secretly hope this turns into a meme thread and dies.

This turned into a thread of silliness and memes. I am happy.

Originally Posted by iron_jones

Or, you know, we could forget about the memes.

You wish, sucker.

[auroraglacialis]

As much as I dislike organized religion, I think to demonize ( ) religions in general is also not apt. I was a religion-basher for a while but I realize that a society needs some base values to hold on to. If those are 10 commandmends or 10 amendments does not really matter by principle, though I guess they should be a bit more sophisticated in our times than they were 2000 years ago and they might be different in Europe than in the near east. But basically those 10 commandments are kin to what we now call our constitutions or human rights. There are ways to make such moral statements without religion, though not without some form of nonscientific and non-economic altruism. If that comes from humanism as the "modern alternative" to religion, from religion or from something people might call spirituality does not matter, but to operate ONLY under scientific or economic rule would be a serious problem because under those systems, all that one can pull off is possible, there are no ethics or moral issues implied if the operating system one works with is neodarwinism or neoliberalism (which basically is related to each other). In both cases, the rule is that everythign is based on competition of individuals that are profoundly self-centered and interested only in personal gain and the "more successful" ones will win. Ethics, Philosophy, Religion, Spirituality, Morale are all constructs that prevent such a "dog eat dog" scenario to unfold with humans and I think Atheism has an obligation to present at least a very solid and emotionally(!) binding alternative if it is crushing Religion.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by auroraglacialis

As much as I dislike organized religion, I think to demonize ( ) religions in general is also not apt. I was a religion-basher for a while but I realize that a society needs some base values to hold on to. If those are 10 commandmends or 10 amendments does not really matter by principle, though I guess they should be a bit more sophisticated in our times than they were 2000 years ago and they might be different in Europe than in the near east. But basically those 10 commandments are kin to what we now call our constitutions or human rights. There are ways to make such moral statements without religion, though not without some form of nonscientific and non-economic altruism. If that comes from humanism as the "modern alternative" to religion, from religion or from something people might call spirituality does not matter, but to operate ONLY under scientific or economic rule would be a serious problem because under those systems, all that one can pull off is possible, there are no ethics or moral issues implied if the operating system one works with is neodarwinism or neoliberalism (which basically is related to each other). In both cases, the rule is that everythign is based on competition of individuals that are profoundly self-centered and interested only in personal gain and the "more successful" ones will win. Ethics, Philosophy, Religion, Spirituality, Morale are all constructs that prevent such a "dog eat dog" scenario to unfold with humans and I think Atheism has an obligation to present at least a very solid and emotionally(!) binding alternative if it is crushing Religion.

The entire premise of "neodarwinism" conflates what is (evolution in various environments and various scales) with what ought to be, and thus commits an appeal to nature.

Also, attempting to sway you by appealing to your emotions would be illogical, Cap'm.

[EywaBlessMe]

Originally Posted by Clarke

Also, attempting to sway you by appealing to your emotions would be illogical, Cap'm.

All religions, with one exception, appeal to emotions, usually fear, to convert or force conformity.

[Clarke]

What's the exception?

[EywaBlessMe]

Buddhism, because while the other major religions insist there is only one true path to salvation, it accepts that there can be many paths.

[applejuice]

And if Buddhism is wrong?

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by EywaBlessMe

Buddhism, because while the other major religions insist there is only one true path to salvation, it accepts that there can be many paths.

That doesn't have much to do with appeals to emotion. In fact, it might even involve one, if you can't justify that idea with logic.

[txim_asawl]

I must admit, I only saw one episode of this "History" series, when looking for related videos about "Iron Sky" on YouTube... and the award for the most hilarious part of that documentary goes to: Ancient Aliens helping the Nazis with their weapons programs...
One UFO researcher is quoted to have met Dr. Wernher von Braun, while revieweing de-classified UFO files, and when asking him about the fast achievements in the WW2 missile and later US space programs, von Braun allegedly looked at the stacks of files, and replied "You know, we had help..."



That idea about Nazis on the Moon, returning at some point, suddenly gets a whole new quality. The scarier thought in "Iron Sky", though, is Sarah Palin being US president.

If you look at the Ancient Alien seies from a satire POV, it's a great laugh. In the aforementioned episode, they even quote from and refer to Indiana Jones movies, admitting that "while being fictitious, they bear a lot of truth" - referring in particular to the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail. Ahh, what fun there can be in television.

Just in case, someone wants to watch this:

Aliens and the Third Reich (FULL) - YouTube

Wiggling bare toes, chuckling at parts of that "documentary",

~*Txim Asawl*~

[applejuice]

... So, to those levels has the reputation of History gone ... actually hurting Iron Sky! (I have to watch that movie!)

[Human No More]

Discovery is just as bad these days though...

[Niri Te]

Why my T.V. went to the DUMP over a year ago. Now I have a flat screen that is for DVD's ONLY. I get the news and weather from the local T.V. Broadcast station over the net, and DON'T have to put up with Advertisements.
Niri Te

[auroraglacialis]

Hehe - the decline of american "educational" television. Soon it seems there will be only total nonsense on TV in the US - I am glad that Germany still has some "socialist" public television that is well funded and can show real documentaries with real people that are not bordering on being sent to a lunatic asylum.

Iron Sky - great movie by the way. Saw it when it came out and it is so much fun, especially the US reaction to the whole thing - and the peaceful space programs

[EywaBlessMe]

There seems to be a concerted effort in the American education system to not create the next generation of movers and shakers but more mindless cogs to keep the machine grinding away.

[Human No More]

That goes anywhere to some degree... I always say that a lot of education is creating users - people who can intuitively use the system that was created for them, but not people who understand HOW it works, who can improve upon it and build the new systems of the future. To most people, it just does and they have never thought about how. I guess it's the same with history.