A Global military/consumer product "RDA" forming between China and GM?

[Niri Te]

You guys ready for THIS? WHAT do you think General Motors did after they reciever their part of the 80 BILLION dollar, TAXPAYER FUNDED bailout? Take a look at THIS. BOTH parties are at fault, and the U.S. taxpayer was duped. Click on the li...See More
General Motors is becoming China Motors

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Lvl5Gan69Wo

General Motors is becoming China Motors. Forget the spin. The evidence is clear and convincing. Did U.S. taxpayers save GM for China? Listen to the candid

Niri Te

[Exoblade]

So what?

Everyone is setting up factories and projects in china, its the up and coming industrial superpower. Its demand for car is going to explode as the middle classes develop and general motors would be crazy not to invest in car manufacture projects so close to potential markets. Since the chinese government keeps tight control of the the economy the only way to acess that market is to team up with state industries.

If the price is telling the chinese to make better cars, thats a price worth having, even if they undercut them eventually they'll have made back on the investment since chinese citizens want western cars as status symbols.

Also the spin in this is really insulting, so their saying Obama is a communist now? Despite the fact that that report they mentions is 13 years old, they say all this is his fault. Wasn't it president Nixon (a republican) who opened up china to american investment?

[Niri Te]

The thing about GM building cars in China is no big deal, HELL, half of my tools, I bought from Harbor Freight, (Made in China). What I have a HUGE problem with, is a Chinese WEAPONS MANUFACTURER owning a manufacturing plant in this Country. THAT, sets my teeth on edge. NOW do you understand why I am as mad about this as i am Exoblade?

[Human No More]

It's much like any country - there aren't any pure weapons manufacturers past the scale of small companies who sell a small range of individual systems; for the large ones, that's a subdivision of general industry in the vast majority of cases. Don't go all conspiracy over it.

Keep propaganda on whichever conspiracy nut forum it originates from.

[Niri Te]

I wasn't going to slice and dice the video HNM. The biggest thing I have, like I said is a Chinese weapons company on U.S. soil. I Really don't think that it was cool that GM took the Billions in bailout money, and then said that it will send major portions of it's engineering to China. HOW can these people look at themselves in the mirror in the morning? As for calling GM RDA, if they climb into bed with the Chinese, sell one of their plants to a Chinese weapons firm, and divisions of GM are also doing defense work for the U.S. military, this is JUST NOT GOOD, Tons of money, a LOT of international influence on BOTH sides of political ideology, and access to MUCH classified American weapons technology.

[Exoblade]

They will never do that. The American government would eat them alive with confidentiality agreements. Anyway why piss off your other major client/consumer base.

Anyway general motors doesn't actually have a defence division after it was brought out by General Dynamics in 2004.

Also look at it from the chinese side, the US sells weapons to Taiwan, which the mainland considers a rebellious province. Does it threaten US companies over it? no, it smiles and then buys stuff from them.

[Niri Te]

THANKS, Exoblade, I did not know that GM sold all of their defense divisions to General Dynamics in 2004, THAT takes the whole situation down about six notches. We are now dealing with a company that "took the money and ran", but NOT an "RDA style" single mega corporation that sells everything from consumer goods, to defense systems, setting up major operations with a Communist country.

[Clarke]

It would be pretty much impossible for China and the US to go to war anyway. War is expensive, and guess who the Chinese are selling all their manufacturing to?

[Raiden]

I'm kind of surprised that nobody brought up how China is like the poster-child of environmental destruction for industrial gain.

And the US could probably do a lot to stop it. Just tell China to clean up their act, or cut off a certain (as large as possible) amount of trade with them. But that won't happen, because the US government is made of corrupt, old ****stains who care more about their pocketbooks than any other living thing.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by Raiden

I'm kind of surprised that nobody brought up how China is like the poster-child of environmental destruction for industrial gain.

And the US could probably do a lot to stop it. Just tell China to clean up their act, or cut off a certain (as large as possible) amount of trade with them. But that won't happen, because the US government is made of corrupt, old ****stains who care more about their pocketbooks than any other living thing.

What makes you think that China won't call the US' bluff? Trade restrictions would cause all sorts of problems on the American end, just as much as it would on the Chinese end.

[Exoblade]

Originally Posted by Clarke

It would be pretty much impossible for China and the US to go to war anyway. War is expensive, and guess who the Chinese are selling all their manufacturing to?

Its more that China owns vast ammounts of US treasury bonds. If they stop buying then or call in their existing debt then the american government stops working since from the 1980's they've funded most of their activities through bonds. This way they've been able to cut taxes while keeping spending up.

Originally Posted by Raiden

I'm kind of surprised that nobody brought up how China is like the poster-child of environmental destruction for industrial gain.

And the US could probably do a lot to stop it. Just tell China to clean up their act, or cut off a certain (as large as possible) amount of trade with them. But that won't happen, because the US government is made of corrupt, old ****stains who care more about their pocketbooks than any other living thing.

This however runs into the fact that the west did the same thing during the industrial revolution. To say that we can industrialise but you can't; smacks of imperialism and of keeping the natives weak.

It also runs counter to Americas view that developing an middle class in china is the best way of undermining the communist party. The best/quickest way to acheive that is to allow rapid industrialisation.

[Niri Te]

Originally Posted by Exoblade

This however runs into the fact that the west did the same thing during the industrial revolution. To say that we can industrialise but you can't; smacks of imperialism and of keeping the natives weak.

It also runs counter to Americas view that developing an middle class in china is the best way of undermining the communist party. The best/quickest way to acheive that is to allow rapid industrialisation.

The two above statements are very VERY true. If we wanted to see their middle class explode, while shrinking their environmental impact, I would suggest the following to them. (Understand that I am NO diplomat, or economist, and have no idea if this would even WORK, but am putting it up to see what others think.

What if in exchange for them PROMISING in a "Treaty" of sorts, to NOT cash in the bonds for fifty years, we would help them bring up their nuclear power safety systems to state of the art levels, and help them build the safety systems of any plant that they chose to build, how ever many they chose to build for the next twenty years.

The trickle down of the Construction dollars paid to the Chinese company's building these plants would, at least in some part reach the construction workers, enriching, and possibly widening the Middle class in China. When the plants came on line, the need to burn the coal would plummet, and the planet would benefit. A little Pollyanna? Perhaps, but I just thought this up while reading your post.
Niri Te

[Raiden]

Originally Posted by Exoblade

smacks of imperialism and of keeping the natives weak.

So it's impossible to pursue industry without skipping the awful dirty phase, then?

I'm disappointed in you.

[Exoblade]

Originally Posted by Niri Te

What if in exchange for them PROMISING in a "Treaty" of sorts, to NOT cash in the bonds for fifty years, we would help them bring up their nuclear power safety systems to state of the art levels, and help them build the safety systems of any plant that they chose to build, how ever many they chose to build for the next twenty years.

This wouldn't really work. Not only would it undermine the point of treasury bonds, it might reduce sales of them, hitting the american government ablity to fund itself. If you can't make a profit from the bonds why buy more.

Also the Chinese wants to be self-sufficent technolgically and so want their own scientists/companies to build their reactors. Letting foreign companies build the reactors would undermine this desire since it suggests that china is less advanced than the west.

Also reactor building would not really boast the growth of the middle class since it would be undertaken by a small number of constuction workers using machinery and the reactor itself would be built by highly specialised people who are already highly paid.

In deed a move away from coal for power genoration may have a negative effect for peoples standard of living since so many people are employed in mining and transporting coal for the powerstations. If the power stations go nuclear these people would have to find new jobs, some may actually suffer structural unemployment as the number of mining jobs can't not meet supply as china transfers its mining operations around the world. For this reason you could argue that the government has a reason to keep using coal to keep the workforce employed.