CG Another Neytiri 3D WIP

[Neytiri Makto]

I love the work that fierox has been doing for the past couple of years on his 3D Neytiri!

In fact, I love it so much that I decided to teach myself maya and try my hand at making a 3D Neytiri model. Please bear in mind that I have only a couple of years experience working with 3D, and less than one year of that with maya. This exercise is also meant to get me up to speed with zbrush and photoshop.
If you don't think it will interfere with the amazing work that fierox has been showcasing, I hope you won't mind if I post my wip pictures here.
I figured that an Avatar community forum would be the most appropriate place to demonstrate a love for Neytiri.

I'm uploading some 3D turnarounds of the model as it stands today. I know that I still have a ton of work to do to get it right, but that's why its called a work in progress - right? Hope you guys enjoy watching me make this over the days/weeks/months that it takes to get this done.

P.S. I hope you guys don't take offense to the username I selected. It's all in fun and love

[Neytiri Makto]

Here's the medium distance turnaround images.

[Neytiri Makto]

Here's the close distance turnaround images.

[Neytiri Makto]

Here's the really closeup turnaround images.

Thanks for looking! Please let me know what you think.

[Susano'o]

It looks good. I look forward to the final version.

[Moco Loco]

I think for being somewhat of a novice (I say that with little to no experience myself), it's very good as a figure, but I don't think it looks like Neytiri.

[Neytiri Makto]

Susano'o, thanks for the encouragement. This will be a big undertaking for me so I'm glad that somebody has taken an interest already.

Moco Loco, thanks for taking the time to reply.
Do you feel that at least I've managed to make a good Na'vi, even if not specifically Neytiri yet?
Is there anything in particular that stands out as inaccurate to you?

I know this is still an early stage for the model, in fact I was just starting to create the fingernails today, so there is quite a bit of work for me yet to accomplish. Heck, I haven't even finished her tail yet, it looks like the tail of a doberman - LOL!

I'm getting primed up on zbrush tutorials at present. I've never used the program to do digital sculpting before - but I have all of the tools that I'll need, including a low end wacom tablet. So in the meantime I'm just working on making sure that all of her parts will be in place prior to sculpting the really fine detail.

I'll be sure to use the HD Neytiri pics thread to pick up as much reference as I can so she'll become more accurate over time.

[fierox]

Wow nice work!
I'm very glad i inspired you to start your own 3D model, nice work already.
Its hard to learn Maya yourself but once you get past the first bit it gets fun!
Looks like youre well into it already!

I hope you dont mind me giving you some quick pointers before you get your model full of detail. I would recommend that before you start adding detail you alter her base pose a little. Like take the arms down a bit and the legs in a normal straight position.
This way your model will most likely look less deformed (when you rig it, add joints etc) in the state she will be in most of the time (standing with arms down). Dont mean deformed in a bad way, but its all about good deformation
And most important and often overlooked by people starting 3D, dont rush too much, learn to make the poly mesh flow in the right way, very important! Especially in the places where alot of deformation takes place, like her mouth, knee's, shoulder area etc.
Post a wireframe if you could?
Anyway good luck, im no expert (yet ) myself but i love to help out a fellow 3Der, questions, just ask!

[Neytiri Makto]

Its great that you were able to take the time to check out my work.
I hope that I'll be able to get this model nearly to the quality of your own.
I have spent nearly 8 months watching many video tutorials on maya, and tried my hand at modeling a star wars character, but ran into topology problems during skin binding. So I decided to make my second character to build on the lessons learned from the first one.
Topology is quite a challenge, I need as much practice as I can get!
The first character had a very dense mesh, and so I decided to make this character much less detailed for the base mesh. I have learned enough to know that the fine details can be added using normal and displacement maps generated from zbrush instead of being wired into the mesh.
As for the pose... My first character was setup in the M pose like your own, but I found it very challenging to build the ik/fk arm controls and thought I would try the T pose.
The reason why I have the legs spread apart instead of straight up and down? I thought it would help with deformations and range of motion once rigged. Another reason - there was some minor discussion in your Neytiri thread about making the model anatomically correct. I thought I might try that, but its hard to model those particular details with the legs close together. Hopefully that little bit of information won't enrage anybody. I haven't yet successfully modeled genitalia (or rigged it for that matter), but I thought it would be a learning experience.
Here, I've tried to create some renders with the wireframes. You may notice that the fingernails are still being worked out. I also haven't added any details to the toes yet, and still need to add edges to define the knees and elbows.
Well, it looks like the wireframes are too large for the attachment, but you can see them on my deviantart gallery: habariart.deviantart.com
Any more help you can offer would be really appreciated! Please let me know what you think about the ideas I mentioned.

[Neytiri Makto]

fierox, now that I think again - I think you have a really good point.
As I mentioned before, the last character I made was in the M pose and I really don't think that I had many problems with the shoulder rigged in that pose. The deformations were pretty good.
Using the T pose may cause me some problems with the deformation of the shoulder geometry - so I am seriously considering reposing her arms because of what you said.
The problems that I had with the other model were in the abdomen because of the crazy amount of polygons I built into that character. This character shouldn't have so much of a problem in the abdomen because it doesn't use so many polygons.

[fierox]

Pretty good already, nice to see the wireframes.
Topology is looking well, pretty clean and nice squares! That will help you later on!
There are some spaces that could do with less detail tho, for example you could miss some edges in the shoulder/armpit area without any trouble, well or atleast redistribute them a little if you really need them.
I'm not sure why you have problems modeling her genitalia with her legs normally down tho.
That shouldnt be a reason for positioning them that way imo. Now you have angled legs and her feet straight down. Not ideal for rigging i think.
You are only modeling one side right? Just delete the left side, mirror duplicate (instanced) the right side and move it over when needed? If you can make a nice clean model like this genitalia shouldnt be a problem
You can duplicate and reattach everything later on. That way it shouldnt be hard to build and if it is, just model it loose and attach to the model when ready?

Just to give you an idea of mine i made a render of her in low poly with wire, smoothed and with the added normal map from the high res version.
I already added some detail in my low poly version and shaped the topology following her muscle structure. So mine is a bit different from yours, it helps but also brings some new problems, oh well wanted to try it
Oh and in case youre wondering, there's no actual genitalia on mine, just pulled some vertexes in to give the impression (works from a distance).

Neytiri low poly wireframe by *Fierox on deviantART

Oh and you can link your deviant images here ofc using [img]

[Neytiri Makto]

fierox, its really great to be able to correspond with you like this - and receiving feedback from you (with your years of experience with this character) is really awesome!
Thanks for the updated look at your Neytiri's wireframe. I can really see the differences between your approach and mine. Yours definitely has a higher polygon count by far! That is very similar to the approach that I took with the star wars character I mentioned. I modeled in too much detail with too many polygons. It looked really nice when rendered, but painting skin weights turned out to be a nightmare. When I'm done with Neytiri I plan to use this same low poly method to improve my star wars model.
What you said about the genital modeling makes sense. I was taking the approach of modeling it in the open position for the sake of adding the various skin texture details in zbrush.
I am completely new to zbrush, so I'm trying to make the poly surfaces that would be inside the closed genitals more easily accessible for high resolution sculpting and normal mapping.
But then I may end up using polygroups to separate the visibility of those 'internal' parts of the organ - making it not so necessary to keep her private parts gaped like originally planned.
If that would work, then I'll just attach some joint chains to the arms and legs to reposition them into a more natural shape like the M position to continue modeling.
You seem to have used zbrush to make the normal maps for your Neytiri. Did you try sculpting any internal surfaces the way I'm describing? Like the inside of the mouth for instance? I plan to make her very detailed inside and out. I'm even going to make individual teeth and gum structures.
I'm so glad to have something of a mentor in this process - thanks for taking the time!

[fierox]

Haha you give me too much credit, when i started on Neytiri i've been away from Maya for some time. Anyway, yes its best to keep polycount low. That will make skinning easier.
Also made an inner mouth mesh with individual teeth etc but everything is made free of the outer skin. I went pretty quick through modeling/texturing fase so the detail isnt even that high. Basically the models are made for animation and well you just wont notice the difference.
For single renders, or if you need those close ups its very cool to try tho. There are some super detailed Na'vi models out there. I just dont have the patience for it
Its reasonably easy in zbrush tho, everything that comes after the sculpting is the hard part i guess!

[Neytiri Makto]

It has taken me a year to gain the skills that I needed to continue working on this project. Talk about biting off more than you can chew!
Anyway, I completely rebuilt my Neytiri model and have now gotten to the point where I think she's starting to show some potential.
All of the coloring is temporary texture. I'm still building the parts of her various costumes right now. After the initial modeling is done, I'll take her into zbrush and begin working on the fine sculpted details and actual texture maps.
Any feedback on what I've done so far? Do you think this is any improvement over my prior attempt?

[Moco Loco]

It definitely looks more like Neytiri now, but I think the body shape is a little off, upper body and shoulders should be more defined for more of a na'vi shape. I'm very critical but it's a great model anyway. Also maybe the hands should be a bit more elongated.