So who's eywa?

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Clarke

Define "best." Most accurate? Most flexible? "Happyist?"

Just forget about all the world's problems and shoot up heroin.

(There, a post that iron_jones would be proud of)

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by auroraglacialis

Raptor, you called my arguments "nonsense" a lot without really explaining why.

By nonsense, I mean that the statement is a non sequitur.

What I am trying to say is that it is really hard to look at anything in the world at the same time from the emotional side, loving it, respecting it and feeling to be in a relationship with it - and looking at it as a mechanism, as a system, as chemical reactions and physics.

Great, if you find that difficult, it doesn't mean others do.

If you have a loved person, do you look at that person with love and a deep emotional response of being connected - that warm feeling inside - and think about pheromones and neuroscience which explains why you react that way and why you to love each other and about how great the DNA of that other person is formed to create the pheromones that make you love that person ... dont you think if you would try to think about all these mechanistic views, you would not be able to actually feel the affection and love at the same time?

Yup, argument by example/extended analogy. An opinionated one at that. Frankly I don't have the energy to engage in this kind of discussion.

At least not as intense as if you do not think about all of this? If only because the brain cannot do too many things at the same time. Its like sitting in the bathtub trying to relax but at the same time think about work, programming, cleaning the room, cooking, planning the next vacation - it simply will prevent you from really relaxing.

Goddamn, stop using argument from analogy...

This is what I meant by my refernce to other cultures which do meditations in order to get the mind free of thoughts to experience a state of consciousness that allows them to be open for other impressions. I can however not really convey the matter to someone who has not experienced such a thing, so that is a bit of a hindrance here.

A load of rhetoric. Quite a long winded way of saying that people have different POV. Sure, you can believe that something has "magical" or "spiritual" qualities, but those are inherently subjective and opinionated. Unlike, say, Faraday's Law. Of course, nothing wrong with being opinionated in that manner, but don't preach your spiritual beliefs as something that it's not, i.e. factual or objectively/inherently superior.

Of course I can appreciate and be fascinated and even wonder looking at something and thinking about it with the mind of science. It is fascinating and beautiful, but it is very different from the impression I get when I get rid of all the thinking - get into the silence - and then just let the world "speak" to me and in turn let myself "see" the world.

Cool opinion bro.

Not overrule, but amend it. As I said, I can look at something with a thinking mind, as an explorer of rationality, as a scientist who knows about cells and chemicals and all that. Or I can let go of all that thinking for a while and just perceive, "see", hear to what the world is saying to me and for many people what I tend to experience then would be considered spirituality maybe. That does not negate most of the mechanistic experiences - obviously these are in many ways correct - gravity works, electricity works and so on - but it is not complete, that is what I am saying. The mechanistic worldview is not wrong, it is merely incomplete.

Incomplete in what aspect? It's definitely true that our knowledge of science is currently incomplete. New discoveries will be made in the future. If you're arguing that it is incomplete by lacking emotion or "soul," well cool opinion bro. Science requires an open mind, with conclusions that aren't biased by emotion.

And of course not all is rainbows and unicorns in the natural world and neither it was in the past and other cultures, preshistoric ones also made mistakes (though I have to say that the article you quote starts by saying "Humans have transformed Europe’s landscapes since the establishment of the first agricultural societies in the mid-Holocene." thus again supporting that it was agriculture and with it the mindset of controlling and owning nature that started a lot of the problems.

So what? I hope you're not implying that non-agricultural societies/cultures are somehow inherently superior...

Why ist that nonsense. Obviously there is a contrast there that exists. It is quite real I think and there is certainly a reason behind that contrast. I doubt it is pure chance that indigenous cultures have this respect and love and emotional bond to the natural world while the rational thinking industrial societies dont have it (and obviously many people do not even know what the heck those people are talking about that point towards that different way to look at the world)

Nice use of false dichotomy there. I hope you're not implying that assigning spiritual qualities to the natural world is somehow equivalent to respecting it. Many societies in the past have assigned demonic qualities to the wilderness to highlight its often unforgiving nature. Also, don't equate indigenous to non-agricultural.

Technology always has unintended consequences, often bad ones that need more knowledge and more technology to fix them, which in turn has more unintended consequences and so on. This is the trap of the technofix. I think the precautionary principle should be much more important than it is now. Think first, then act. I think there is much to be done without becoming "stagnant", given that right now the growth in many parameters like energy and resource use, "scientific knowledge", technological development, computing power and so on moves along something like an exponential curve. If development is halved or even reduced to a fraction of what it is now because of being more cauteous, there still would be more "development" than lets say 1000 years ago. But I think we have gotten so used to this exponential growth that we perceive every diversion of that as a stagnancy. If the economy does not grow exponentially, people talk about a recession already.

And there's that slippery slope argument. Again, if you're going to keep up with this kind of crap, I don't have the energy to continue such a discussion.

[auroraglacialis]

[allroock123]

Eywa "is" an symbolic example created James Cameron to reflect upon a "Connected" world
"The All mother" The Heart of nature Bound to all Life on Pandora , In Reality "Eywa" is a name given that represents "The mind and Heart inside nature" that by example touches on all life on
Pandora, but Eywa might also be a "reflection" from a deep part of ones primal core human understanding that drives a universal desire for deeper "spiritual meaning" reflecting upon ones "unique" Core "Sense of place" and "Sense of self".
This may form the core "source roots" of ones heartfelt understanding
There are many "Very Real" native cultures that share this "viewpoint" through there mytholigy, though they all give diffrent names for the same "All mother"

"The lamps are Diffrent ,,,But The light is the same. (Poet Rumi)

[TireaAean]

Interesting blend of spirituality on this forum. Even more interesting - and refreshing - is to see the lack of flaming because of it.

I myself like the concept of Eywa. Unity. Made up of all living things. The All mother. I'm not a true believer in any major religion these days, but if the Universe of AVATAR were all true, then I would be happy to believe in Eywa as she is. The best we can do these days here is try to apply the concept of Eywa to Earth. Have that total respect for living things smaller and seemingly lesser than one's self. And the love and care for the environment. That connection between the spirit of other people and living things. Seeing who everyone is on a deeper level.

I like all that. It's all very deep and positive, I think.

[Nrra Utral Ayseoä'ite]

Originally Posted by Niri Te

I understand you PERFECTLY ma tsmuk

If You meant me, irayo. (I'm a "tsmuke" <female>)

Originally Posted by Raptor

The truth is that Eywa is a fictional entity created by James Cameron. In the movie, it serves as a literary device. While you can embrace the message that the film is trying to convey, don't lose touch with reality.

I don't lose touch with reality. However, sometimes I feel I should....
But why not live my life the way I want? Why not be as happy as I could be? I'm not immortal, so I make the best of it. You can call me crazy but I don't really care, because I know I'm crazy & I'm proud of that. I've always been different from the others, the average people.. Why not be "more different"?
Oh, and they don't see I'm a kind of Na'vi. They only see my tsaheylutswin, the nice thin braids in my beautiful hair, my developing muscles, my half-Na'vi-half-human jewels. And sometimes I walk barefeet on the streets/in the forest. (Very rarely, when the sun is shining..) So, I look like a special human.
They can't see into my mind, they don't know my relationship with my ikran (who is a Horse) or my love for trees. They don't know.. and they might not understand if they knew..
I don't care how they call their gods or goddesses.. I think calling God "Lord" or "He/Him" was a mistake, though. Perhaps (s)he doesn't even have a gender! But I know most of the people need someone to beg to or to blame for such things like fall down from the stairs. "divine punishment." Quite easy to say, isn't it? [I say I believe in Eywa and this doesn't hurt anyone. I have the right to say/think/believe that, like every single person. Some of them are atheists, I can understand them, too. By the way, understanding is a Na'vi-virtue. ]
So, I live my life this way. It's good for me and it's not bad for others, so that we can live in peace together. (I don't hurt or kill skypeople, don't worry. Some of them are my friends.. very few of them.)
Raptor, I didn't write this only to you but to everyone. Just your message made me write it.
And I don't mean to hurt any feelings.
(And iron_jones, may you leave me alone, rutxe. Irayo.)
~

[Moco Loco]

Everyone thinks they're different and special, and that assumption is a big mistake. You just never know most of the people in your life well enough to find out what makes them different.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by Niri Te

Clarke wrote: You studied aerospace engineering, and that's the question you want to ask? Be prepared for a very long explanation.

WELL, ma tsmukan, I believe that I will have all of Eternity for Him to explain it to me.

Just warning you, because the current answer involves calculus in infinite-dimensional spaces, with every indication that the actual answer is going to be more complicated still.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Nrra Utral Ayseoä'ite

I don't lose touch with reality. However, sometimes I feel I should....
But why not live my life the way I want? Why not be as happy as I could be? I'm not immortal, so I make the best of it. You can call me crazy but I don't really care, because I know I'm crazy & I'm proud of that. I've always been different from the others, the average people.. Why not be "more different"?
Oh, and they don't see I'm a kind of Na'vi. They only see my tsaheylutswin, the nice thin braids in my beautiful hair, my developing muscles, my half-Na'vi-half-human jewels. And sometimes I walk barefeet on the streets/in the forest. (Very rarely, when the sun is shining..) So, I look like a special human.
They can't see into my mind, they don't know my relationship with my ikran (who is a Horse) or my love for trees. They don't know.. and they might not understand if they knew..
I don't care how they call their gods or goddesses.. I think calling God "Lord" or "He/Him" was a mistake, though. Perhaps (s)he doesn't even have a gender! But I know most of the people need someone to beg to or to blame for such things like fall down from the stairs. "God's punishment." Quite easy to say, isn't it? [I say I believe in Eywa and this doesn't hurt anyone. I have the right to say/think/believe that, like every single person. Some of them are atheists, I can understand them, too. By the way, understanding is a Na'vi-virtue. ]
So, I live my life this way. It's good for me and it's not bad for others, so that we can live in peace together. (I don't hurt or kill skypeople, don't worry. Some of them are my friends.. very few of them.)
Raptor, I didn't write this only to you but to everyone. Just your message made me write it.
And I don't mean to hurt any feelings.
(And iron_jones, may you leave me alone, rutxe. Irayo.)
~

Didn't say you can't live your life as you desire, but I think you should recognize that Avatar is a piece of fiction, and one shouldn't treat it as dogma.

I'm also not keen on people attempting to extrapolate the existence of some "Gaia" from narrative devices of the film. I also don't think it's wise to start attaching "spirituality" and "magic" to natural phenomena, since I think that this kind of mindset may inhibit rational and scientific thinking.

[Nrra Utral Ayseoä'ite]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Didn't say you can't live your life as you desire, but I think you should recognize that Avatar is a piece of fiction, and one shouldn't treat it as dogma.

I don't treat it as a dogma or anything. I believe. (in many things.. e.g. my Horse's love for me..) [I recognize that but my mind is much more complicated..] Yes, you didn't say that.

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

Everyone thinks they're different and special, and that assumption is a big mistake. You just never know most of the people in your life well enough to find out what makes them different.

Tell this yourself. You're telling me I'm not different and special BUT you STILL do not know me..
(You could ask some people and animals to whom I'm special.. And my former classmates to tell you I'm different. That's why they hurt me in primary school.. And that's why they weren't sure whether I was human or alien in the grammar school. But they didn't hurt me. Most of them even liked me and some of them are my closest friends.)
So you can be sure I'm different.... (it's sometimes a gift, sometimes a curse..) But if you don't think I'm different, I still don't care. You have the right to think what you want. But that doesn't make me not different or different. So it's not your opinion that makes me different (or not).
You're right, I don't know many people around me (e.g. my former primary school classmates). But they didn't / don't want me to know them. They all rejected me (or my friendship). They didn't want me. And (unfortunately later) I realized I don't want them either. Even my "best friend" pushed me away. Her loss. [I can be a very good friend if one wants me.. And who has enough patience and will to get to know me. I could be a diamond.]

But don't worry. I know some people and they are special to me. Some of them are almost as different as me in some ways. And I'm happy. I'm glad some people left me 'cause I "got" more wonderful ones.
~

[Moco Loco]

I used second person, but I didn't say anything about you. I don't conclude that I'm better than other people who I know nothing about. Everybody gets rejected in life, sorry to say that doesn't make you somehow special.

[Nrra Utral Ayseoä'ite]

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

I used second person, but I didn't say anything about you. I don't conclude that I'm better than other people who I know nothing about. Everybody gets rejected in life, sorry to say that doesn't make you somehow special.

Yes, that doesn't. But you still don't know me.
(I know you didn't say it just to me)
I said "(You could ask some people and animals to whom I'm special.. And my former classmates to tell you I'm different. That's why they hurt me in primary school.. And that's why they weren't sure whether I was human or alien in the grammar school. But they didn't hurt me. Most of them even liked me and some of them are my closest friends.)".
And some years ago oeyä Sa'nok told me I should love myself but I didn't. Later I realized She was right.
& you know what? I am special not only to my family and close friends but to myself. (They know me and) I know myself. I know myself better than anybody else.

But I know I'm acting silly.. You won't admit I'm special because you can't. You don't know me. And I'm sorry too to say that it's not your words that make me special or not special. (You don't even know me..) So, I don't think I care much. (About what you say.)
I mean, it's just a forum.. We can't really get to know each other, we're just discussing some things.. That's what forums are for.
(However, some members are very special to me.)
But there's something that is for making real friends. It's life. Real life. [I have very nice real life friends and an ikran, who is my real life HBFF(= Horse Best Friend Forever) ]
But this topic is about Eywa, not me, so I stop this. I'm outta here. (I mean, this topic. ^^ *calm as stone*)
"Write what you want
Say what you want 'bout me
If you’re wondering
Know that I'm not sorry"
and
"You can't have my heart
And you won't use my mind but
Do what you want (with my body)
Do what you want with my body
You can't stop my voice cause
You don't own my life but
Do what you want (with my body)
Do what you want (with my body)"
/Lady Gaga - http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/ladyg...hatuwant.html/
P.S.: Don't mind the "with my body"-part but the others literally.
Eywa ngahu (to everyone) believe in Her or not.

[Moco Loco]

Well I've certainly gotten to know lots of ToS members. I consider many of them close personal friends and I even met my husband here. It just sounds to me like you're pushing people away.

[Nrra Utral Ayseoä'ite]

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

Well I've certainly gotten to know lots of ToS members. I consider many of them close personal friends and I even met my husband here. It just sounds to me like you're pushing people away.

No, I don't. It's just harder for me to let somebody get close to me. (my early life experiences caused this.) And sometimes people simply don't understand what I am saying..
But I know what to do and I do it right. I know who are my real friends (in RL and in ToS, and I hope one day I could meet them..).
But I'm sorry, I promised I won't write more here.. 'cause this topic is about Eywa, not me.... ^^
And I had to quote Lady Gaga 'cause those lines are so true..
~

[warnerza]

Eywa is the guiding force and deity of Pandora