Wainfleet's alive?! (returning for all sequels)

[Exoblade]

Avatar Alum Returning for All Four Sequels

Either all of the sequels include lengthy flashbacks or they are going to massively retcon the ending to the original.

[iron_jones]

Awesome, I loved Wainfleet.

[Ja'k Dawsiin]

colonel coffeecup and wainfleet deserve eternal stompings by the baddest cat in the forest, grrrrrr.

[DrowElfMorwen]

I really think any creature that dies on Pandora, ends up getting "recycled" somehow into Eywa. That being the case, it's understandable those that "died" are really just part of Eywa now, and they can reach out through her *-*

[Ja'k Dawsiin]

nah, it looks like colonel coffeecup and wainject were human avatars of themselves, being remotely driven from orbit or an unshown location on Pandora. maybe the rda/secops had human avatar bodies just for it's in the field security leadership, which would explain why selfridge and the other commercial leadership were on the isv going home and only secops figureheads make it to the sequels.

[Omatikaya Tsamsiyu]

Originally Posted by Ja'k Dawsiin

colonel coffeecup

That's a good one!


No, the case is simple. three's no other explenation of Quaritch's and Wainfleet's behavior other then:

1. They were sadistic psychopathic low-lives who enjoyed seeing suffering

2. The SecOps were all USMC vets/retaired marines, some of which seen combat on earth, (such as Jake and Quaritch seen combat in Nigeria) and as we all know, war, can **** up anyone's psyche NO MATTER WHO IT IS! Even, if Quaritch and Wainfleet were calm, pleasent good people before, after returning from duty on earth, they just couldn't live like normal people, so they decided to join the SecOps and go to Pandora, cuz as mentioned before-they cannot live a normal life. There are many stories like this.

[iron_jones]

Originally Posted by Ja'k Dawsiin

colonel coffeecup

I don't get it, I think; is there a reference I'm not seeing?

Originally Posted by Omatikaya Tsamsiyu

three's no other explenation of Quaritch's and Wainfleet's behavior other then:

1. They were sadistic psychopathic low-lives who enjoyed seeing suffering

Were they?

[Omatikaya Tsamsiyu]

Originally Posted by iron_jones

I don't get it, I think; is there a reference I'm not seeing?



Were they?

1. Yes, you can see that very c;early, when Quaritch is in the Dragon Assault ship during the distruction of hometree

2. yes, they wer, just look what Wainfleet did to Tsu'Tey. . Anyone who murders, tortures innocent beings is subhuman trash, period!

[Ja'k Dawsiin]

Originally Posted by Omatikaya Tsamsiyu

That's a good one!


No, the case is simple. three's no other explenation of Quaritch's and Wainfleet's behavior other then:

1. They were sadistic psychopathic low-lives who enjoyed seeing suffering

2. The SecOps were all USMC vets/retaired marines, some of which seen combat on earth, (such as Jake and Quaritch seen combat in Nigeria) and as we all know, war, can **** up anyone's psyche NO MATTER WHO IT IS! Even, if Quaritch and Wainfleet were calm, pleasent good people before, after returning from duty on earth, they just couldn't live like normal people, so they decided to join the SecOps and go to Pandora, cuz as mentioned before-they cannot live a normal life. There are many stories like this.

the secops thugs were a bunch of paid for hire mercenaries from a variety of countries that supplied workers and materials for the Earth-spanning conglomerate Resources Development Authority (RDA). yes, some of the secops people were former members of the US military, but the secops forces were comprised of mercs from many countries. how many times do i have to say this over the years??? it's all there in the Avatar Handbook from 2009. i'm so tired of everyone bashing on the United States all volunteer Armed Forces, of which i proudly served four years on submarines in the US Navy. *steps off soapbox*

[Omatikaya Tsamsiyu]

Originally Posted by Ja'k Dawsiin

the secops thugs were a bunch of paid for hire mercenaries from a variety of countries that supplied workers and materials for the Earth-spanning conglomerate Resources Development Authority (RDA). yes, some of the secops people were former members of the US military, but the secops forces were comprised of mercs from many countries. how many times do i have to say this over the years??? it's all there in the Avatar Handbook from 2009. i'm so tired of everyone bashing on the United States all volunteer Armed Forces, of which i proudly served four years on submarines in the US Navy. *steps off soapbox*

It's 'Resources Development Administration', and not 'Recources Development Authority'


No one is bashing the US Armed Forces, however, in the film, there is a lot of sithings suggesting that they were Americans, like for example:

The RDA's uniforms, look at the style and those hats, that are mostly worn by USMC officers, the camo looks like a MARPAT/AOR2 mix, granted it's not in production right now, and was spacificly made for the movie, however it looks like a 'evolutionery step' of the MARPAT/AOR2 (there NOT the same, but are close, and both camos look very simular, to the RDA/SecOps camo.

The weapons, the GS-221 CARB was modeled after the MR-C by Crye, which is an American weapon

And like the kitchen in Hell's Gate, on the window, the covers make up 13 stripes, and the monitor is on the left-were the blue part with the stars are on the us flag. When Jake goes there, since the kitchen is also used as a briefing area, he has a t-shirt with the USMC logo.

and lastly, Quaritch says: 'You are not in KANSAS any more...' which is a state in the USA, and there is a well known army training centre there, so even if they were not the USMC, or US ARMY, the RDA were American, And JC wanted to show, that the US isn't exactly just apples and oranges, I mean, who murdered the so called Native Americans? who didn't bomb the cocentration camps although they were flying over them in WWII? who had camps for japanese soldiers in WWII and the vietnam war, they treated the vietnamese population lkike sub-human trash.

In short: Just because something/someone is American, that DOES NOT make it good

[t1mtnntgn]

1 like

[torukmakto4]

Originally Posted by Omatikaya Tsamsiyu

The RDA's uniforms, look at the style and those hats, that are mostly worn by USMC officers

Well, corporate security forces aren't going to wear T-shirts and bluejeans or really have much originality in that, they will try to be as faux-mil as possible. Whether that's the same sort of wannabe-military thing with [US] cops these days, or is just going with proven clothing.

Originally Posted by Omatikaya Tsamsiyu

the camo looks like a MARPAT/AOR2 mix, granted it's not in production right now, and was spacificly made for the movie, however it looks like a 'evolutionery step' of the MARPAT/AOR2 (there NOT the same, but are close, and both camos look very simular, to the RDA/SecOps camo.

Just a Pandora-adapted digital camo pattern probably whipped up by someone at RDA for this operation.

(I wish Avpat/Pandorapat were available! It's really cool and subtly unique.)

Originally Posted by Omatikaya Tsamsiyu

The weapons, the GS-221 CARB was modeled after the MR-C by Crye, which is an American weapon

Bit of a stretch - it's not like they used AR-15 platforms. MR-C is a concept/prototype from an American company but isn't really an identifiable reference to nationality any more than i.e. a SCAR is. If there is a SCAR in something, does that suggest Belgium is being referred to?

The CARB is Matanza Arms Corporation which is probably a Spanish company. (It also is not a GS-221. This is someone's wiki/Pandorapedia error that propagated - massively. I have been meaning to try point that out for a while. GS-221 is properly the IBSF GS-221, the same 7.62mm LMG as "AVR-30" from the games.)

Originally Posted by Omatikaya Tsamsiyu

And like the kitchen in Hell's Gate, on the window, the covers make up 13 stripes, and the monitor is on the left-were the blue part with the stars are on the us flag. When Jake goes there, since the kitchen is also used as a briefing area, he has a t-shirt with the USMC logo.

That is indeed a reference. That has been in lots of old concept art for the Hellsgate commisary.

I'de suggest it is meta - RDA designed an American flag image into this room. Seems very much like something they would do.

Originally Posted by Omatikaya Tsamsiyu

and lastly, Quaritch says: 'You are not in KANSAS any more...' which is a state in the USA, and there is a well known army training centre there,

But it's also a The Wizard of Oz (1939?) reference often used to express the gravity of a fundamental change of environment.

Originally Posted by Omatikaya Tsamsiyu

so even if they were not the USMC, or US ARMY, the RDA were American, And JC wanted to show, that the US isn't exactly just apples and oranges, I mean, who murdered the so called Native Americans? who didn't bomb the cocentration camps although they were flying over them in WWII? who had camps for japanese soldiers in WWII and the vietnam war, they treated the vietnamese population lkike sub-human trash.

In short: Just because something/someone is American, that DOES NOT make it good

RDA is a multinational. They drew lots of security personnel, at least for this op, from the USA veteran population.

Now my point in all of this is not to refute the existence of the imagery and themes constantly suggesting America or past actions of the US, just to point out what level they are on.

A LOT of people have a LOT of trouble comprehending the "dynamic range" of the original 2009 Avatar. It is a very deep and nuanced piece BUT also has EXTREMELY bold and clear elements, plot points, moralities. Very few films/creative works accomplish what it does. It's a fractal structure; it looks totally closed and complete and makes narrative sense from even the most general and low-level view from afar, but what looks like a monolithic and simplistic building-block of this story from there is actually a further engineered structure. The meanings can be very stark or very subtle, and they can be very easy/obvious or very difficult to find. Avatar goes well into all 4 quadrants and doesn't create a relation between these axes.

The "fractal" nature is a great thing for universal appeal; but Avatar never appears "dense" to anyone. No matter how crappy an understanding you have of Avatar, it seems like you got a complete view of it. It doesn't punish a bad viewer, rather just seems like an action flick with a girl and explosions. To some this short-circuits the usual clue that something requires further thought/investigation. Combined with the 4-quadrant use of stark vs. subtle meanings and obvious vs. buried elements it leads to two kinds of errors among audiences "blinded" by the bigger, brighter bits. One is to get distracted and miss details that should have been obvious or were even overtly spoon-fed for the benefit of people who would overlook them (ironically, same people who balk at some line or another being excessive spoon-feeding are usually guilty). So, that's what happens with all the people who actually thought SecOps pukes "are the US Marines" - gross comprehension fail; that is in a line of dialogue you silly. The other is to assume that mutual exclusion exists, see the very black/white rail-to-rail morality going on elsewhere in the film and then ascribe false starkness or moral extremity to an element that is subtle. That is what relates to this thread and the "American imagery" subject.

Everyone wants to jump right to outrage at these incisive America remarks and throws terms like "anti-American", "anti-armed forces". That doesn't make any sense. It's a very childish view. That flag imagery in the commissary for instance; does it not seem to suggest cunning subversion of patriotism? And our protagonist is the one usually wearing the EGA shirts and referring to "no such thing as an ex-Marine". He ends up killing a whole lot of these hired guns, and to me this is almost a matter of justice for their willing abandonment of the ethos that Jake "never loses", in favor of the money from the Company. This is not in any way anti-military. It is FAR from that simple.

[Omatikaya Tsamsiyu]

I didn't want this sound that I'm anti-American, because I am a proud American citizen, but these refrences just I was like WTF.

I don't want to bash Avatar either, I even made these 'The Bull**** occusations of Avatar' thread, and if you look, I get very emotional, so I don't want to bash Avatar, now that I look at this, it's something that like the White Rabbit (thats a name of a crazy christian youtuber), but I just couldn't explain it otherwise to my self. Thank You.

Also, Why if I see the name 'GS-221' the CARB pops up? On Pandorapedia, and even the Pandora guide book shows the CARB pic under the GS-221 article, also, is the short verion of the CARB an SMG or carbine? or are they diffrent guns?

[Ja'k Dawsiin]

Originally Posted by t1mtnntgn

1 like

[torukmakto4]

Omatikaya Tsamsiyu I didn't mean that to seem antagonistic, that post was kind of a runaway train anyway and the tone/intent doesn't come across on the internet. Both are problems for me. I know you aren't bashing. Also I will have to do more digging on the '221 thing, and the CARB SMG is always described as the same caliber, so definitely appears to be the same (one and only) CARB base unit with a short barrel installed.

And about Wainfleet? Hisssssss.