Catastrophic Oil Spill In The Gulf Of Mexico....

[PunkMaister]

Originally Posted by auroraglacialis

The estimated numbers of barrels/day went up over the weekend (Christian Science Monitor wrote about 25000 barrels instead of the prior estimate of 5000) along with the devastating news, that the attempt to place the dome to contain the leak failed. It is also said, that sand in the oil erodes the structures containing the wells, potentially widening the opening and increasing the outflow. This is just getting worse every day - people like naturalnews.com already start to churn out doomsday prophecies about the spill having global consequences (which I am inclined to believe if it remains uncontained for several weeks to come and the stuff reaches the Atlantic) with devastating effects on the oceans and global food supply as well as oceanic carbon uptake capacities etc.
If we manage to contain this, alternative energy is definitely something to think about - or should be. I am afraid what will happen is the opposite. People will advocate "clean" nuclear power (working towards another Chernobyl) or they will state that we have shown that our technology can contain such an event, so we can go on with it and will be prepared in the future. (LOLing sarcastically). And even if the deep sea drilling is postponed until issues are resolved, they still have plenty of oil, they just have to strip mine Canada for oil sands, devastating landscapes there (like a 50.000km² open pit mining operation) or they can just continue to flatten the mountains in eastern US by "mountain top removal", making rivers acidic and poisenous.

Ok, I'm depressed now - should maybe not have watched BBCs "How Earth made us" documentary or "HOME" - but then - is blissful ignorance a solution?

But Aurora what else can we do? Right now Nuclear seems the most viable option till renewable energy sources catch up to the point in which they can generate sufficient power and not just a third or so as it is today. I rather switch to nuclear and move toward renewables now. We cannot tolerate another disaster of this magnitude. Oil has proven to be too toxic for it's continued use with this event alone.

[madman]

Originally Posted by PunkMaister

But Aurora what else can we do? Right now Nuclear seems the most viable option till renewable energy sources catch up to the point in which they can generate sufficient power and not just a third or so as it is today. I rather switch to nuclear and move toward renewables now. We cannot tolerate another disaster of this magnitude. Oil has proven to be too toxic for it's continued use with this event alone.

Nuclear has its drawbacks as well... There hasn't been a nuclear catastrophe for some years, but there is always the chance. Are we just giving up one human made problem for another? I just hope and dream that we can make wind and solar power more viable in the coming years. These are two things we have plenty of and you can't get anymore natural.

[PunkMaister]

Originally Posted by madman

Nuclear has its drawbacks as well... There hasn't been a nuclear catastrophe for some years, but there is always the chance. Are we just giving up one human made problem for another? I just hope and dream that we can make wind and solar power more viable in the coming years. These are two things we have plenty of and you can't get anymore natural.

Yeah but don't you see we cannot afford another disaster like this, Oil is just too toxic, I mean in this everybody agrees that spills specially something on this scale is horribly damaging regardless of what camp you might be in the Global warming arena. Even though the latter is arguable this is not. And we need to begin to act now.

A renewable fuel that could work with current engines of current cars would be awesome as well. I would not mind if Gas stations could pump such fuel without the need of expensive overhauling etc.

[madman]

ugh... doesn't get any better

FOXNews.com - BP sprays more chemicals into Gulf oil leak site to thin it out while crews work to slow flow

ON THE GULF OF MEXICO (AP) — A remote-controlled submarine shot a chemical dispersant into the maw of a massive undersea oil leak Monday, further evidence that authorities expect the gusher to keep erupting into the Gulf of Mexico for weeks or more.

Crews using the deep-sea robot attempted to thin the oil — which is rushing up from the seabed at a pace of about 210,000 gallons per day — after getting approval from the Environmental Protection Agency, BP spokesman Mark Proegler told The Associated Press.

The agency had halted two previous rounds of the dispersant to test its potential impact on the environment, and approved a third round of spraying that began early Monday, Proegler said.

The EPA said in a statment the effects of the chemicals were still widely unknown.

BP engineers, casting about after an ice buildup thwarted their plan to siphon off most of the leak using a 100-ton containment box, pushed ahead with other potential short-term solutions, including using a smaller box and injecting the leak with junk to plug it. However, none of these has been tried so deep — about a mile down. Workers were simultaneously drilling a relief well, the solution considered most permanent, but that was to take up to three months.

At least 3.5 million gallons were believed to have leaked since an April 20 drilling rig blast killed 11. If the gusher continues unabated, it would surpass the Exxon Valdez disaster as the nation's worst spill by Father's Day.

The engineers appear to be "trying anything people can think of" to stop the leak, said Ed Overton, a LSU professor of environmental studies.

Back on land, National Guard helicopters ferried loads of 1-ton sandbags to plug gaps in barrier islands that have been lapped at by a sheen of oil. The effort to bolster the islands was meant to safeguard the area's vulnerable wetlands.

Authorities also planned to use south Louisiana's system of locks and levees to release water to help keep the worst of the oil at sea.

"We're trying to save thousands of acres of marsh here in this area, where the shrimp lay their eggs, where the fin fish lay their eggs, where the crabs come in and out," said Chett Chiasson, executive director of the Greater Lafourche Port Commission. "We're trying to save a heritage, a way of life, a culture that we know here in recreational and commercial fishing."

BP — which is responsible for the cleanup — said Monday the spill has cost it $350 million so far for immediate response, containment efforts, commitments to the Gulf Coast states, and settlements and federal costs. The company did not speculate on the final bill, which most analysts expect to run into tens of billions of dollars.

Among plans under consideration for the gusher, BP is looking at cutting the riser pipe, which extends from the well, undersea and using larger piping to bring the gushing oil to a drill ship on the surface, a tactic considered difficult and less desirable because it will increase the flow of oil.

Above the oil leak, waves of dark brown and black sludge crashed into the support ship Joe Griffin. The fumes there were so intense that a crew member and an AP photographer on board had to wear respirators while on deck.

Oil — be it a surface sheen, globules or balls of tar — has washed up west of the Mississippi River and as far east as Dauphin Island, three miles off the Alabama mainland at the mouth of Mobile Bay.

The blowout aboard the rig, which was being leased by BP, was triggered by a bubble of methane gas that escaped from the well and shot up the drill column, expanding quickly as it burst through several seals and barriers before exploding, according to interviews with rig workers conducted during BP's initial, internal probe. The exact cause remains under investigation.

[auroraglacialis]

Of course I agree that oil is not a good future. Such spills may be rare but they can happen and what is going on in Canada is as bad as this but done deliberately:


But nuclear is not a good option at all - it can only postpone the problems and basically it is like taking a loan - we have energy now but tons of toxic radioactive waste in some years and no clue what to do with it. And that is only if things go right. As with oil, accidents happen and from Chernobyl I still feel the consequences - I cannot just go into the woods and eat mushrooms or berries, I could not hunt if it was allowed without taking in a certain exposure of radioactivity. The suggestion is not to eat food from the woods more than twice a year. And this will not be over for decades! That price is too high also.
What I do not get (or maybe I get it but will sound too much like an anti-corporation conspiracy theorist) is why they need to build big plants with coal and uranium. The technology to produce solarthermal energy is already developed, if the immense amounts of money put into nuclear power would be invested in further advancements of solar and in the construction of solar power stations, this would not be much of a problem. Even better - allow small scale power stations in homes and on buildings. This would even reduce trouble with energy loss by transportation. The concepts are there, but people just cling to the notion that they are not economic. But they are - just not for the companies who run energy sale right now, as they are fixed in their infrastructure and management on large scale single point power production.
A 3m (about 9') parabolic solar dish with a stirling motor in the center can apparently produce a kilowatt under good conditions. Maybe this is not enough for a family if they keep using wasteful appliances and the sun does not shine all the time, but it goes a long way...

[tm20]

i havn't been keeping up to date with this usse but how come I havn't seen any of the big orginisations like UN and WWF get involved? If they have then I havn't been reading enough or watching enough news

[madman]

Originally Posted by tm20

i havn't been keeping up to date with this usse but how come I havn't seen any of the big orginisations like UN and WWF get involved? If they have then I havn't been reading enough or watching enough news

That is a good point tsmukan. I haven't read anything about other nations helping out. THis is how things are though. Doesn't suprise me too much.

[Iluvrien]

Originally Posted by madman

That is a good point tsmukan. I haven't read anything about other nations helping out. THis is how things are though. Doesn't suprise me too much.

I would suggest this is about funding. If BP has already dropped 350 million on this, then it has already eclipsed the WWF's yearly budget by several times. The UN (or UNEP) has a larger budget but even that is still less than the "tens of billions" that they seem to be expecting. To be honest NGOs don't have the money to manage this one. Governments and Large Corporations are the only people who can have access to the kind of cash needed...

...sadly.

[madman]

more bad news about BP and the oil spill...

Why BP's well isn't shut - the search for answers - May. 12, 2010

BP knew of problems hours before blast
deepwater_horizon_fire.gi.top.jpgThe Deepwater Horizon drill rig burns in the Gulf of Mexico, April 21. By Steve Hargreaves, Senior writerMay 12, 2010: 2:35 PM ET


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- BP knew of problems with an offshore well hours before it exploded last month, spilling millions of gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico, a House committee chairman said Wednesday.

Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., said the oil company told the Energy and Commerce subcommittee on oversight privately that the well failed a key pressure test just hours before it exploded on April 20.

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The test indicated pressure was building up in the well, which could indicate oil or gas was seeping in and could lead to an explosion, said Waxman.

"Yet it appears the companies did not suspend operations, and now 11 workers are dead and the Gulf faces an environmental catastrophe," he said, asking why work wasn't stopped on the well.

Witnesses before the panel, which included executives from the three primary companies working on the well - BP, Transocean, and Halliburton - said the course of events and actions leading up to the explosion is still under investigation, and will come to light over time.

BP's deepwater oil well, 40 miles off the coast of Louisiana, is now leaking some 200,000 gallons of crude a day following theexplosion that claimed 11 lives.

Lawmakers also wanted to know a valve sitting atop the well, known as a blowout preventer, known as a BOP, failed to close and avert the disaster.

"It is far too early to draw conclusions about how the incident occurred," said Jack Moore, president and CEO of Cameron International (CAM, Fortune 500), the company that built the device. "Our BOPs have a very long history of reliable performance, including performance in some of the harshest operating conditions in the world."

Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., said the blowout preventer may have failed for four reasons: Modifications to it may have reduced the number of shears that can close the well; a hydraulic leak may have knocked it out of commission; it may have hit a section of pipe that was too thick to cut; and its battery power may have died.

The executives said the blowout preventer is not designed to handle all situations, especially when it becomes clogged with debris from an actual explosion.

"I would think that your blowout preventer should be designed to handle that," said Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas.

Lawmakers also criticized proposed efforts to seal the well by injecting rubber debris down the top, including old golf balls and bits of tires.

"The American people expect a response on par with the Apollo Project, not Project Runway," said Rep. Ed Markey, D-Mass.
Senate hearings

On Tuesday, hearings in the Senate focused on similar themes: what caused the well to explode, and why the blowout preventer did not work.

Three executives from the three principal companies working on the well all blamed each other.

BP (BP), which owns the well and subcontracted the other companies to work on it, said it was Transocean's job to ensure that the blowout preventer was functioning. Transocean was the owner of the drilling rig that sunk, the Deepwater Horizon, and also owned the blowout preventer.

Transocean (RIG) said the blowout preventer worked just fine in tests, and that it may have gotten jammed with concrete or other well fluids that were injected by a third contractor, causing the well to explode. Either way, argued Transocean's president, it was the faulty well, not the rig or the blowout preventer, that ultimately caused the leak.

Halliburton (HAL, Fortune 500) was the third contractor; it injected cement and other well fluids into the hole before the explosion. But a Halliburton exec said it was only following the orders of BP, which wanted a heavier fluid, known as mud, removed from the well before the well was capped with a concrete plug.
The risks and rewards of offshore drilling

Some senators, citing a Wall Street Journal report, said this process of removing the heavy fluid before the concrete plug is installed is unusual in deep water drilling, and suggested it may have caused the accident by allowing the highly pressurized oil and gas to escape. But Halliburton's executive said the process was not out of the ordinary.

The Minerals Management Service, the federal agency that regulates offshore drilling, has also come under fire in the wake of the spill.

On Tuesday, senators wanted to know why there weren't other back-up systems in place to stop a leak besides the blowout preventer, and questioned why the blowout preventer may not have been able to cut through thicker sections of pipe to pinch it shut and stop a leak. Lawmakers also questioned the agency's relationship with the oil industry, which some have described as cozy.

The Obama administration announced plans Tuesday to split the agency in two, thus removing an apparent conflict of interest between the drive to maximize oil production and efforts to ensure safety, which could slow drilling down.
0:00 /:41BP oil spill worries investors

Under federal law, BP, as the lead project operator, is responsible for all clean-up costs associated with the spill.

While the subcontractors are thought to have some legal indemnification from BP and the federal government, lawyers say they could still be open to lawsuits from fisherman and others affected by the spill.

Ultimately, experts have said the total cost of the spill could range from $2 billion to $14 billion or higher, depending on when the leaking well is closed and where the oil washes ashore. To top of page

[PunkMaister]

Sue the bastards until their pockets bleed I say...

[Human No More]

This is something at least.
BBC News - BP says latest scheme to halt US oil leak working well

The oil company BP says it has successfully started to siphon oil from its leaking Gulf of Mexico well to a tanker on the surface.
BP executive Kent Wells would not say how much oil was being siphoned but said the process was "working well".
BP succeeded on its third attempt to insert a long narrow tube into the leaking pipe, using underwater robots.

Now I just hope they manage to deal with all the oil that already leaked...

[auroraglacialis]

I heard they managed to get something like 10% of the daily spill into a tanker. I sure hope they can manage better than that!

Meanwhile I worry more on the notion that it was said that most of the oil will not wash ashore, but be dispersed in small droplets in the water or sink to the ocean floor. This worries me with my educational background for two reasons. The first is the incredible consumption of oxygen. This happens in the Baltic sea also due to fertilizers. If it goes bad, oxygen in the water will go, marine life dies from that, the decay of the oil (euphemistically describes as biodegradation) and dead fauna at the ocean floor consumes the last bit of oxygen there. Hydrogen Sulfide is produced in these conditions. Already the concentrations of Hydrogen Sulfide are 100 times the limit. (Ironically Hydrogen suflide was one of the reasons humans cannot survive on Pandora BTW). The second reason is the upcoming hurricane season. If one of them hits, it will definitely spread the surface oil onto land and if the Hydrogen Suflide buildup in the Ocean gets high and a storm produces a turnover, it may be released and people at the coast may suffer from poisoning. This happens naturally in areas of Namibia after algal blooms, but this situation is man made and possibly much worse. I hope they do monitor this and give people a warning if it really builds up...

Greetings
Aurora

Edit: http://www.aolnews.com/nation/articl...rface/19477682

[madman]

Oil has reached Louisiana Wetlands....

BP touts containment efforts; heavy oil reaches Louisiana wetlands - CNN.com



SOOOO very sad.. can't imagine how many animals and plantlife are going to die....

[Txantsulsam Fyawintxu]

You know what's freakishly insane? They're actually concerned about the costs and the payment of the
mess instead of simply going there to fix it with everyone working together to help the environment for free.

Now that's insanity...

[auroraglacialis]

Yes, @Spock. And this is also, why the thoughts regarding this situation deal with the financial costs so much. People worry about "who is going to pay for it", as if payment of little green pieces of paper or changing bits and bytes in a computer really are able to do anything. Even the efforts of the people who help, often voluntarily without getting money, is only of limited use as much of the disastrous results cannot be amended with work or money.

Yesterday I heard on German public Television of some really nutty sounding plans for the situation that are now considered. It tells me that they are really desperate and lets me even doubt that the proposed long term solution they planned for the next two months (by drilling a second hole) will work at all. I mean, if they plan to drop "tires and golf balls" into the well as a measurement and even consider the "russian method" of exploding a nuclear bomb underwater - this tells you what the situation is, yes?