What Are Our Beliefs And Why?

[Советский меч]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

That's my entire point: give me a subject to start with.

God creating the universe in 6 days, 6000 years ago.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow

God creating the universe in 6 days, 6000 years ago.

That will end up being fully explained in the other thread I linked to. (See edited version of previous post).

Please don't think I'm trying to beat around the bush with this; I'm trying to keep this discussion on topic, while shifting the topic you want to discuss to the right area, which will be discussed very soon (as you can tell, if you've been following the other thread). I'm tired, and just finished an incredibly long reply to Sonoran on the other thread. As I said: maybe another time. As far as your question about 6000 years, I'll get to it later in the other thread. Be patient, and do not insult my intelligence... and try not to insult anyone else's (like you subtly did just now with rapunzel).

[rapunzel77]

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow

We have no proof that god doesnt exist

.

Exactly my point. We don't have any concrete evidence to prove that He doesn't exist. Since this is the case and Science cannot explain or prove that God doesn't exist, why is it such a stupid thing for someone to believe that He does exist?

I would think people would have the common sense to not believe in an invisible man in the clouds.

I guess, from this sentence that you are saying that at least over 3 billion people who are alive today don't have common sense? Are you also saying that your ancestors didn't have common sense either? Can so many people, in all races, cultures, and civilizations in the world get it so wrong for so many thousands of years?

I have already stated why people belive, for answers to questions we cant answer now. Why didnt it wither away? No offense but thats a simple answer, the ignorance and stupidity of the general public.

Ah, but you forget that it wasn't just the rabble that believed in God. Many kings, emperors, philosophers, scientists, artists, engineers, laywers, doctors, professors and other academics, farmers, miners, sailors, etc, etc believed in God too.

Those who are raised believing in god because their parents tell them to.Or because they read the bible and they accept it because it answers their questions.

That is partly true. However, there are many who have had no religious upbringing grow up to believe in God. Parental conditioning is only a small part of it. The Bible doesn't answer all questions. It answers specific theological questions that is helpful to have answered.

Plus the bible mentions hell, which has scared religious people for centuries. People fear hell- people belive in god. People fear death- people believe in god. People fear the chance that god doesnt exist -people believe in god. People want answers and people fear god, thats why most people believe.

I am not talking merely about the Bible. I don't know how much study you have done of other religions but these ideas about sin, judgement, etc are found in other religions as well.

Having a fear of damnation is only a small part about the belief in God. That isn't the only nor is it the main reason why people believe in God. I choose to because I am humble enough to know that I need all the help I can get and I choose to believe in God because I love. Love is the number one reason why so many people would die for their faith. Yes, there are some who are misguided. Who think that by killing themselves and a ton of other people with them that it constitutes love but that is not what I am talking about.

Do you know why ultimately Rome became Christian? It wasn't necessarily all the debates, the missionary journeys, etc. No. It was the sight, the witness of thousands of martyrs who, because they loved so much, they would die for their faith. Die. Yes. In the most horrific of ways. That is what converted many. Love. Love conquered them. That is why we believe in God.

Maybe it was randomness. No lol thats stupid lets worship an invisible man no one has seen or heard.


P.S Im not calling you stupid.

I'm sorry that you feel this way. It wasn't stupid for many of our ancestors. Nor is it stupid now. I'm merely saying what I believe. I have not in this conversation insulted your beliefs. Why is it that you must resort to insults to get your point across? Granted, not all atheists do this. I know there are others on here who do not insult religious beliefs even though they are against them. Why do you?

[Советский меч]

Originally Posted by rapunzel77

.

Exactly my point. We don't have any concrete evidence to prove that He doesn't exist. Since this is the case and Science cannot explain or prove that God doesn't exist, why is it such a stupid thing for someone to believe that He does exist?



I guess, from this sentence that you are saying that at least over 3 billion people who are alive today don't have common sense? Are you also saying that your ancestors didn't have common sense either? Can so many people, in all races, cultures, and civilizations in the world get it so wrong for so many thousands of years?



Ah, but you forget that it wasn't just the rabble that believed in God. Many kings, emperors, philosophers, scientists, artists, engineers, laywers, doctors, professors and other academics, farmers, miners, sailors, etc, etc believed in God too.



That is partly true. However, there are many who have had no religious upbringing grow up to believe in God. Parental conditioning is only a small part of it. The Bible doesn't answer all questions. It answers specific theological questions that is helpful to have answered.



I am not talking merely about the Bible. I don't know how much study you have done of other religions but these ideas about sin, judgement, etc are found in other religions as well.

Having a fear of damnation is only a small part about the belief in God. That isn't the only nor is it the main reason why people believe in God. I choose to because I am humble enough to know that I need all the help I can get and I choose to believe in God because I love. Love is the number one reason why so many people would die for their faith. Yes, there are some who are misguided. Who think that by killing themselves and a ton of other people with them that it constitutes love but that is not what I am talking about.

Do you know why ultimately Rome became Christian? It wasn't necessarily all the debates, the missionary journeys, etc. No. It was the sight, the witness of thousands of martyrs who, because they loved so much, they would die for their faith. Die. Yes. In the most horrific of ways. That is what converted many. Love. Love conquered them. That is why we believe in God.




I'm sorry that you feel this way. It wasn't stupid for many of our ancestors. Nor is it stupid now. I'm merely saying what I believe. I have not in this conversation insulted your beliefs. Why is it that you must resort to insults to get your point across? Granted, not all atheists do this. I know there are others on here who do not insult religious beliefs even though they are against them. Why do you?

You seem to be suggesting that just because we can't prove he doesnt exist, is good enough reason to worhip him. We cant prove that fairies dont exist, that doesnt mean i believe in them. Just because they are my ancestors doesnt mean that they had common sense. I wouldnt at all be suprised if 3 billion people had no common sense, look at the world today, war, famine, disease, this isnt the work of creatures with common sense. Granted not everyone is without it. Take you for example, your not the hardest religious debate i have faced but you certainly are far more intelligent than most. Throughout history its been mostly taboo and in some cases punishable by death not to believe in god or some other religion, so i can se why the majority did, fear. Acceptance of a supernatural claim tends to promote cooperative social relationships. This communication demonstrates a willingness to accept, without skepticism, the influence of the speaker in a way similar to a child's acceptance of the influence of a parent. By encouraging this kind of behavior where the most intense social relationships occur it facilitates the lack of skepticism and deters more open minded thinking. There is not one single mention of Jesus in the entire Roman record - that is right - not one!!! At the same time as he was supposed to have been around there were a number of Jews claiming to be the messiah - all of whom are well recorded. This old saying comes to mind.Feeble minds look for feeble answers. This agai is no offense to you, you seem to be pretty intelligent.

[ZenitYerkes]

Harvester, you demand proofs.

Can we ask you for some too?

[Советский меч]

Im not, i will just await the outcome of the debate between woodsprite and sonoran navi, they seem to be answering our questions alike.

[rapunzel77]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow

You seem to be suggesting that just because we can't prove he doesnt exist, is good enough reason to worhip him.

That is not the only reason why I worship Him. I am merely starting out with a point in which to debate. You consistently state that God doesn't exist. However, you don't have any proof of that, do you? Where is the proof of His non-existence?

We cant prove that fairies dont exist, that doesnt mean i believe in them.

True

Just because they are my ancestors doesnt mean that they had common sense. I wouldnt at all be suprised if 3 billion people had no common sense, look at the world today, war, famine, disease, this isnt the work of creatures with common sense.

Ok, you maybe right that they didn't have a lot of common sense. However, how can so many be wrong? I believe that the ancients had a lot of knowledge to impart. I wouldn't so readily dismiss them

Granted not everyone is without it. Take you for example, your not the hardest religious debate i have faced but you certainly are far more intelligent than most.

Thank you. I think I have some common sense and I believe it is common sense to believe in God. You don't. Ok.

Throughout history its been mostly taboo and in some cases punishable by death not to believe in god or some other religion, so i can se why the majority did, fear.

Fear is only one of the reasons. That wasn't the only reason. People did things for many purposes. Not all of them fear.

A

cceptance of a supernatural claim tends to promote cooperative social relationships. This communication demonstrates a willingness to accept, without skepticism, the influence of the speaker in a way similar to a child's acceptance of the influence of a parent. By encouraging this kind of behavior where the most intense social relationships occur it facilitates the lack of skepticism and deters more open minded thinking.

Again, this is true to a degree but this doesn't have a total bearing on one's acceptance or non acceptance of God.

There is not one single mention of Jesus in the entire Roman record - that is right - not one!!! At the same time as he was supposed to have been around there were a number of Jews claiming to be the messiah - all of whom are well recorded.

I would like a source for that. There is a reference to Jesus in some non-Christian sources. Some Jewish ones, etc. Yes, there were others at the time claiming to the be messiah. I know that. Jesus was also well recorded. It didn't take long for there to be Christians throughout the empire. There were writings about Christians at the time and their beliefs from some Roman officials, etc. There is even a mention about Christians and their beliefs in The Golden Ass.

This old saying comes to mind.Feeble minds look for feeble answers. This agai is no offense to you, you seem to be pretty intelligent.

I know you say this is no offense to me. However, you do speak about my family. Not everyone who believes in God is "feeble". In fact, there are many, many intelligent people who have believed in God.

I guess if it must be this case. I prefer to be with the "feeble-minded" as you put it than the very few, "elite" people who believe they are so intelligent that they can pass judgment on over 3 billion people who are currently living and all their ancestors since prehistoric times. So, I guess I am also unintelligent and feeble minded. Oh well. There are worse things to be I guess .

[Sacred Tsahaylu]

If you would all kindly stop.
Now, we have been pretty lenient in even allowing this thread to exist, all we ask is that restraint is shown in making comments towards others and others' religions. This is a place to state your religious beliefs not to debate them (regardless of the threads location). If you wish to debate any issue, place go to the IRC channel #TreeOfSouls-Debate.

[rapunzel77]

Originally Posted by Sacred Tsahaylu

If you would all kindly stop.
Now, we have been pretty lenient in even allowing this thread to exist, all we ask is that restraint is shown in making comments towards others and others' religions. This is a place to state your religious beliefs not to debate them (regardless of the threads location). If you wish to debate any issue, place go to the IRC channel #TreeOfSouls-Debate.

Not a problem Sacred Tsahaylu . I don't mind stopping it at all. Stating one's religious beliefs are fine and it was going well until...well....you know.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow

This old saying comes to mind.Feeble minds look for feeble answers. This agai is no offense to you, you seem to be pretty intelligent.

...So the minority of people on earth who believe there is no god are all in the right? And this is according to... ?

This is starting to get very insulting. Now you're calling people who believe in a god "feeble-minded", though you say you don't mean any offense, it's coming off very strongly like you do mean a very great deal of offense. It's a bit arrogant as well... I said the same thing when I was debating Catholics before, saying how I was "merely insulting the Church and their beliefs, not the people". I soon realized that I was wrong, that people were taking offense. You're doing the same thing, only with theism as compared with atheism.

This, to my knowledge, is indeed turning very hostile.

[rapunzel77]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

...So the minority of people on earth who believe there is no god are all in the right? And this is according to... ?

This is starting to get very insulting. Now you're calling people who believe in a god "feeble-minded", though you say you don't mean any offense, it's coming off very strongly like you do mean a very great deal of offense. It's a bit arrogant as well... I said the same thing when I was debating Catholics before, saying how I was "merely insulting the Church and their beliefs, not the people". I soon realized that I was wrong, that people were taking offense. You're doing the same thing, only with theism as compared with atheism.

This, to my knowledge, is indeed turning very hostile.

I agree Woodsprite. I think it is time to stop the "debate". It never was supposed to go into this direction. Any other discussions such as these probably should be done with PM's since I have no idea of how to get into the IRC debate channel .

[Sacred Tsahaylu]

For IRC, please look here, for #TreeOfSouls-Debate, please look here.
IRC is in fact, a much fast, more immediate way to debate. You will not really have a chance to formulate a reply like by forum posts, however.

[rapunzel77]

Originally Posted by Sacred Tsahaylu

For IRC, please look here, for #TreeOfSouls-Debate, please look here.
IRC is in fact, a much fast, more immediate way to debate. You will not really have a chance to formulate a reply like by forum posts, however.

I still can't seem to figure it out on this computer. Oh well. I'm sorry about everything. I just wanted a discussion but it turned into something else that i didn't want it to go into.

[Eltu]

Because of the flame-like nature of recent debating, I am locking this thread for some days, just so things can cool off a bit.

Will reopen this thread later