Obama Has Permanently Shut The U.S. Manned Space Program.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by auroraglacialis

I am wondering how likely it is that a planet that can sustain life does not have life. I'd say it is unlikely.

Technically, ANY planet is capable of sustaining life...
Yet again, the misconception that all life will be humanoid, endothermic, carbon based and with a similar temperature range...

Terraforming, if that is possible, would be an option. But before humans colonize space, they have to learn a lot more than propulsion and life support systems. They have to get their society right, or the worse parts of "Avatar" will come true. Science fiction is always mirroring current social issues in a futuristic settings, using technology as a catalyst to emphasize trends. Avatar does that exactly and shows what our society as it is would do to another planet.

Yet science fiction also shows the best of humanity, what we are capable of, and gives hope for the future, how things should be.

I think, currently we do not really need a manned space flight program unless out of beeing adventourous. The efforts should first of all go into protecting this planet - environmentally and if you like also against possible catastrophies like impacts or polarity shifts or what ever other catastrophies people want to think of when they say we need to colonize space. To gain such technology is likely much faster and easier than colonizing space flight. And to events like the sun dying, we still have millions of years, so we can affort spending a century or so making our home a place to live on again, don't you think?

You could say the same thing about anything. I could equally say that we don't need to make an effort with EArth because we've already destroyed it, and so should put all our effort into space exploration... it's not what I think, but it's EXACTLY the same argument.

Originally Posted by Spock

We need some sort of contingency plan just in case "saving this planet doesn't work". Therefore a space programme is a necessity.

Exactly.

Anyway, for the long term survival of humanity (minimum hundreds of years, more likely a few thousand) space travel is definitely needed because catastrophic events DO occur, and that's not something that can ever be fully avoided or mitigated.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Anyway, for the long term survival of humanity (minimum hundreds of years, more likely a few thousand) space travel is definitely needed because catastrophic events DO occur, and that's not something that can ever be fully avoided or mitigated.

In other words, populating another planet like Mars, or just settling for the moon would basically be, in so many words, backup? Mars as a lush planet in the future I can actually imagine, considering there could be setup points for vegetation to flourish because of the abundant carbon dioxide (thus, oxygen supply points).

Mars as a backup planet, I could see. The moon... The moon's width is roughly the size of Australia (remaining spherical). Taking that fact to mind, it isn't an ideal place to think about populating in place of earth.

[auroraglacialis]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Technically, ANY planet is capable of sustaining life...

I would not subscribe to that... cannot be ruled out completely but it is very much on the fringe of imagination to think of Jupiter holding life...

Yet again, the misconception that all life will be humanoid, endothermic, carbon based and with a similar temperature range...

This just adds to the risk of us destroying alien life even before we realize it, just as we destroy species on this planet without ever seeing them.

You could say the same thing about anything. I could equally say that we don't need to make an effort with EArth because we've already destroyed it, and so should put all our effort into space exploration... it's not what I think, but it's EXACTLY the same argument.

No it is not - it only is, if you take the assumption that we already destroyed Earth and that is not so yet. But to get to colonizing space will take a long time, even with the rate of development we have now (and which is a burden on the Earth at that speed). If the assumption is true and we already destroyed Earth, we'll never make it anyways. At least not in the form of humans beeing travelling to other planets.

The two things are very different - I speak of stability - of building a strong base and then building on that rather than build high on a shaky foundation in the hope to build high enough to reach the ceiling before it all collapses.

Another metaphor can be this: We are living on a nice boat on the ocean. We can get fish and water from the ocean and the rain. Why on earth would we start tearing it apart to build one shaggy float after the other, many sinking right away, scaring the fish away, maybe one will hold some few of us and may or may not reach a distant island once in the hope that there is also food and water there. Meanwhile crucial parts of the ship are dismantled, increasing the perceived need to build a float, despite that float obvioulsy will hold only a few of the vrew. It's not a good plan. The better plan is to think first on what materials are best, how the ship can still be safe and the people on it can be happy.

Anyway, for the long term survival of humanity (minimum hundreds of years, more likely a few thousand) space travel is definitely needed because catastrophic events DO occur, and that's not something that can ever be fully avoided or mitigated.

Yes ok - I am not sure on the hundreds of years scale - humanity has survived for hundreds of thousands of years despite some catastophies and the likelyhood of major catastophes by natural occurences is much lower than that of such occurences caused by an unneccesary rush by people. All I say is, take it slow, don't rush. Focus on the local goals first. Don't plan on events that are just a probability (like space travel to work within this century and terraforming or habitable planets beeing available soon) - this is just taking casino gambling one step further. Personally I think it is already something that has no place in economy (where it is already present). No gambling with the future of humanity!

So yes - it is ok to continue space programs and even plan of sending people up there, but it does not have to be within a decade and especially not if the funds could provide crucial other advances. As I said - research planetary protection systems to protect earth from asteroids, develop social systems that keep human society stable, prevent destruction of the home planet. I am aware of course, that military spending is several times as high as research, but I guess everyone agrees that that is a problem, that this is a lot of money that could have a better use and that at the same time this will not change in a while.