Jake & Neytiri - an idealised male concept of romance?

[Advent]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

You seem to have quite an affinity for real life.

I prefer the reality to the dreamworld. Call me insane. It's written in my sig.

@tennyo- I know! It's shocking! No wonder we hear of all this domestic violence. Ah well, if you can get a relationship to a near perfect stage, the better to you.

[Dreamwalker]

Originally Posted by Advent

Any real lovers have arguments all the time. Sure, Neytiri and Jake did, but think. Why the hell did Neytiri instantly forgive him just cos he was on the Toruk? Fake. 100% guaranteed!

And tennyo, no offense, but he didn't have much of a choice. It's either that, the RDA, or just living in the woods for the rest of your life.
And still, he has life insurance. Lucky swine.

People make movies, books, fiction, because they prefer things in their own little world. Everyone does. They can just afford to release them.
I can arguably say that no one loves real life. Cos they have N/A control over it.

Okay, so I get that you're all "yay rah anti-Na'vi" and all, so I guess you wouldn't get that Toruk Makto would be a really important thing in their culture. It's not just cause the Toruk is big or something.

Aaaand, you're right, those were pretty much his only options. Doesn't mean it was easy though.

but I doubt I changed your mind anyway.

[Advent]

Originally Posted by Dreamwalker

Okay, so I get that you're all "yay rah anti-Na'vi" and all, so I guess you wouldn't get that Toruk Makto would be a really important thing in their culture. It's not just cause the Toruk is big or something.

Aaaand, you're right, those were pretty much his only options. Doesn't mean it was easy though.

but I doubt I changed your mind anyway.

?

I suppose because I prefer Human to Na'vi, Reality to Dream, I'm the one who gets picked on. Natural part of life.

Imagine this:

A girl falls in love with some guy.

They tragically break up.

That guy becomes Jesus.

Now here's the tricky part:
DOES SHE TAKE HIM BACK?

Probably not. That's called Sentience.
Neytiri instantly forgiving Jake seems way too far-fetched in my opinion. He's Toruk Makto. And?

If I fell in love with some girl, we broke up, and she became Eywa... to be completely honest, I couldn't care less.

[Wanderling]

As someone who has been in a long term relationship with lots of ups and plenty of downs, I can say that you learn that even the arguments and less than stellar moments you share with your significant other have value. It isn't always pretty, but the conflict between you causes you to grow, hopefully into a better person and hopefully with someone who will grow with you, too. A perfect love is not one without conflict, I believe...a perfect love is one of understanding, respect, and support, regardless of whatever else has happened between you. Jake and Neytiri show that (and even then, not always prefectly), and I think it can exist in the real world as well, although not every couple treats each other with that level of respect and understanding. The perfection comes from the interaction between the two of you, is what it comes down to, I believe.

I wanted to say something about Neytiri forgiving Jake, too, since I've thought about that moment a lot...I don't think she did forgive him instantly, and I honestly don't think she blamed him for his betrayal, after her anger subsided. There was fault on both sides...Jake's was not an outright betrayal...he did try to stop the destruction of Hometree...too little, too late, but he did his best, and ultimately tried to get them out before it was too late. Neytiri got angry and completely abandoned him...she left to his fate with the humans, to "never come back", but I don't think she meant it. She was angry and grieving. Perhaps she thought he still wanted to stay with the human camp, even after their union together. When he came back, she saw clearly that Jake was choosing the Na'vi over the humans, no more split-loyalty. Toruk Macto or not, I think she would have at least listened to him when he came back, but of course, as Toruk Macto, he was not only coming back for her, but for her people as well, which were her first priority.

A bit long-winded, but just my thoughts on the matter.

[Advent]

(smokes pipe in a reclining chair) Interesting.
I suppose that is realistic, if she goes crazy until her anger subsides. I still find it a bit unsettling seeing such an easy reunion.

[Human No More]

Advent... I really don't think you understand... When Jake did return, Neytiri accepted him back because she saw what he had done, how he had realised it himself and decided to put the Na'vi first. Because some people DO See others and can look beyond themselves.

[Omatikaya Tsamsiyu]

I also think that Neytiri is a perfect woman

[Moco Loco]

okay, this is an old thread. all i'll say is, it makes everything damn easy when they can just hook up their braids and know everything instantly about each other. "how did she know he was actually going to help and didn't just do a dumb symbolic thing that happened to work?" "she knew everything at that point, whatever"

[Crickett]

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

okay, this is an old thread. all i'll say is, it makes everything damn easy when they can just hook up their braids and know everything instantly about each other. "how did she know he was actually going to help and didn't just do a dumb symbolic thing that happened to work?" "she knew everything at that point, whatever"

Fair warning: I'm about to sidetrack this thread. Stuff like this is kind of my explanation as to why the Na'vi would be able to do that in the first place. The way I see it, being able to telepathically communicate is a huge evolutionary advantage. And given how wide spread it is (they can hook up their braids to other people, other animals, trees...), it probably developed really..... really early on in the biological evolution of life on Pandora.

[Raiden]

You're oversimplifying it.

First of all, it is not telepathy. They are connecting secondary brain stems that are capable of transmitting complex information between pairs. It would be as if you touched something hot, and both you and your partner withdrew your hands at once, because you both received sensory input (you > brain > neural tendril > brain > partner). The entire thing is biological, so it cannot be called telepathy.

Second, nervous system structure varies incredibly widely amongst organisms, and this would undoubtedly hold true for Pandora. Arthropods have a different nervous system than molluscs, molluscs have a different nervous system than vertebrates, and then cnidarians and poriferans don't really have nervous systems at all.

Important characteristics, like organ function, embryonic development, immune system structure, etc. are similar within a phylum, but not across phyla. It would be entirely feasible to group Pandoran life the same way, and you would probably find that only the Pandoran equivalent of vertebrates have queues/neural tendrils.

I say this because although Pandoran life would be similar in some important ways, the development of a more advanced nervous system is something that happens over time, and so there are bound to be life forms who do not possess queues, nor the facilities to "operate" one.

[Moco Loco]

That explains everything except for sacred trees.

[Raiden]

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

That explains everything except for sacred trees.

They aren't really trees.

Hydrozoans are cnidarians that have a split life cycle; one half of the cycle features a form with a branching, dendritic (tree-like) body plan, and then that form produces swimming medusiform organisms that sexually reproduce and form larvae called planulae that "land" and metamorphose into a new dendritic hydrozoan.



The pink, willow-like "trees" are probably either plants with endosymbiotic cnidarian-like organisms or cnidarian-like organisms with endosymbiotic plants. The "seeds" aren't really seeds, but rather a reproductive form of the larger organism.

It doesn't completely explain it, but it's probably just that the Pandoran analogue for trees evolved an electrochemical nervous system, and some other tree-like species of plant/animal (the "sacred trees") figured out how to communicate to the other trees and manipulate them.

[Wind12]

^That is a fascinating way to look at them, Irayo for the post, it really is amazing how a lot of the "alien" things on Pandora are bases off of real life organisms on Earth.