My Thoughts on a Certain S.E. Scene (Spoilers)

[X.,.Pandora.,.X]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Yep... wouldn't really make sense.


I don't see why an exopack wouldn't work in the link, characters are shown wearing metal objects in it before then, it even leaves the sides/back of the head clear.

They are big and bulky and wouldn't fit very well(I know I know...thats what she said )

[Human No More]

The sensor grid thing doesn't actually cover the face... Might be a bit tight at the sides but should fit (although really, the sensors at the sides are probably lower than the edges of the exopack anyway)

[Woodsprite]

Remember how I said this in my first post?

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

Now, I don't know if watching the special edition over and over again will purge these opinions of mine about this, but I have really strong doubts that I'll ever get used to it.

Well, I just thought I'd bring this up again, though these are just my thoughts...

I watched the SE again, and tried to pay as much attention as I could, and hoped I could brainwash myself into liking the Tsu'tey scene where it is, as it is... and it sort of worked. Never thought I'd get used to it, but I'm starting to.

Though I still think it could've been placed between the Duel scene and the end of the overall battle, the heartfelt nature of the scene is just too captivating, especially seeing Neytiri's expression and tears as Tsu'tey utters his final words (in fact, Neytiri's facial movements looked the most real-looking here to me, next to the split second when she nudges Jake back with her ikran in the fly-training scene (where she smirks)).

But no matter how much I really, really love this scene, I just can't help but miss the old perfect climax from the "I see you" scene.


Just thought I'd let this out.

[Tu'te]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

...I'm probably the only person on both AF and ToS to actually think this way about this scene, but the thoughts going through my head about it just keep going on a loop over and over in my head. I've got to say something about it, so.... no one's going to like what I'm about to say. I posted this a little while ago on AF.


The Tsu'tey death scene was a good scene.... but I'd rather it wasn't added back in. It didn't belong. The "I see you" scene between Jake and Neytiri pretty much sealed the end of the war, and clasped everything into a sweet moment. It tied in perfectly with the shot of the humans boarding the shuttle.

I thought Tsu'tey's death took away the emotion felt during the "I see you" scene. You had your mind fully on their love, and their being together, seeing each other through their real eyes. But the death scene cutting in right afterward with Jake actually killing Tsu'tey, and Neytiri weeping over him was just an incorrect edit bout. You're supposed to have a clear, concise, close after a huge battle, and showing Jake mercy-killing Tsu'tey doesn't seal it. It just doesn't.

I completely understand the reason why Jake killed him (obviously; I adore the movie "The Last Samurai", so I'm not really against that sort of thing), but it took from the mood. The awkward thought of Jake actually being closed back up into his link pod by Neytiri in order to tend to Tsu'tey right afterward is really bothersome, and took my attention off the true melancholy nature of the tone being presented.

However, I adored the other scenes. As much as I believe the death-of-Tsu'tey scene is very powerful, and very heartfelt, I just don't think it belongs.



Now, I don't know if watching the special edition over and over again will purge these opinions of mine about this, but I have really strong doubts that I'll ever get used to it. So... if anyone wants to comment on why I might be wrong in my thinking, or why this scene really does belong, PLEASE! Share your thoughts, because I'm really at a loss, here.

Now you highlight it I have to agree with you. I loved ALL the new scenes, especially the Tsutey scene with I found particularly harrowing btw but yes, we are over-flowing with love as Neytiri sees the real Jake which, as you say, closes the battle beautifully.

However, Tsutey was a proud warrior and this kind of termination was also common within Native American Indian Tribes as well as the Asian warriors, so I'm guessing he's saving face by having a ritual/honourable ending rather than dying due to the Vrrtep's bullets?

The scene had to be in, but again I agree that it perhaps shouldn't have been after the Pod 'I see you' scene. It's a shame Eytukan was killed off has he would have been perfect to have performed the ritual, perhaps back at the Tree Of Souls with ALL the Tribes present??

[Human No More]

It would make no sense timeline-wise for it to happen before.

Would Quaritch sit around waiting for them?

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Would Quaritch sit around waiting for them?

Well, no. You're right...

Or, maybe it'd take him longer to find the shack...? I dunno.

[nerys]

I have already sicked a squad of ninja's on mr cameron. he is definitely on my **** list.

You see first it was a moment of JOY. TsuTey SURVIVED as I had hoped he did.

Then YOU Mr Cameron you evil SOB squash all that joy by KILLING HIM FOR CERTAIN.

Grrr the moment you stop making avatar stuff. Those ninja's have orders. So for you own sake don't stop making avatar stuff :-) hehe

Everything else was great. You could tell the CGI was not as polished in the addition but otherwise they were fantastic.

though the 3D gave me one hell of a headache. I could not find it in 2D anywhere so I was forced to pay to see 3D. (I only have one eye so I can NEVER see 3D real or otherwise)

I could still see the ghost of the polarized image so the whole filmed looked like a double offset exposure to me. If I have to again I am going to get my own glasses and put both lenses over my one eye and see if that filters out the 3D stuff.

[Human No More]

Both over one means you wouldn't be able to see anything because they have opposite polarisation. Sorry to hear about that though - if you wait for the bluray then that will be 2D.
I didn't see much of a difference in the actual image quality myself, although I have heard some people saying the sturmbeest look less realistic, but I think that may simply be a combination of their makings and the fact there is nothing comparable on Earth.

[nerys]

Hmm actually I don't think you fully understand how 3D works.

3D works by putting THREE images on the screen.

1st image is the Movie itself in 2D

Second image is a polarized "ghost" shifted in one direction

Third image is a polarized "ghost" shifted in the opposite direction and polarized "off angle" to the first polarized image.

the right lens filters ONE image but not the other. the LEFT lens filters the one the right lens left behind but LEAVES the one the right lens filtered.

the result is EACH EYE see a different offset "ghost" that is "combined" in your brain with the main image (the 2d movie) creating a visual offset that your brain perceives as "depth" so you see "3D"

the problem is I only have one eye. SO my right eye SEE's the image that my LEFT EYE is supposed to see.

since I am only seeing half the process no MENTAL FILTERING and "COMBINING" comes into play so my brain perceives BOTH IMAGES separately.

IE I actually SEE the offset ghost. (looks like a screwed up double image to me)

The lens do NOT FILTER THE MOVIE. they only filter these "depth" ghosts. so in theory if I use both lens I will 100% filter all the 3D elements and just be left with the 2D movie and no headache :-)

Think about this. WHY Is your entire world view not a double image? you have TWO EYES so your brain is getting TWO images. NOT ONE.

yet you see one view? its because your eyes are basically seeing the SAME THING. so your brain "combines them" into a "single" world view image of whats in front of you.

if your two eyes see an incongruity your combined world view will break down and you will see two images or a screwed up single image (I have no idea what your brain will do with that as I have only one eye so I can not test it myself)

Let me give you an example.

if I put a set of goggles on you and show your LEFT EYE THIS

_ 2 _ 4

and show your RIGHT EYE THIS

1 _ 3 _

what will you see?

you will see this

1 2 3 4

as a SINGLE IMAGE. unless you SEE it from afar you will NEVER know your saw two completely separate incomplete images.

(as long as the images are otherwise identical ie no incongruities.) They actually used this for your DRIVING tests in some states. I almost got into a fight with the officer over this when he called me a MORON and uneducated because I only could see

1 _ 3 _ and thats what I told him (it did not light up till your FACE was in the machine so I never saw that it was a SPLIT IMAGE and since I had only one eye I could not SEE the left eye image so I had no "combined" world view that looked like what HE saw.

for me I would only see 1 _ 3 _

Needless to say I calmed down once I realized how the machine worked and proceeded to give the trooper a dressing down and a 101 educated on human vision and binocular world view image processing. He was no longer insulting me after that dressing down. (you see it states in BOLD at the top of my form NO VISION IN LEFT EYE because the people who filled that out KNEW it was critical and HE should have known how his own damned tests works. :-)

while YOU would see 1 2 3 4

you never NOTICE the "blank" spaces that are actually their because your brain "puts them together" into a single unified world view. it MERGES both eye views into a single view.

Mine does not. so I ACTUALLY SEE the blank space IE the "ghost double image" that is 50% of what is created to allow you to see 3D.

needless to say over 3 hours of seeing double can lead to a bit of a headache :-)

SO using both lenses should "filter" out all the 3D elements and leave me with a simple 2D movie without a double image, in theory :-)

[nerys]

as for CGI quality. Look at Augustines "arm" in the School house scene when she puts the book back on the shelf. the CGI "animation" is far less realistic here than anywhere else in the movie. Does not ruin the movie but it was just enough that I noted it from a technical aspect.

[Human No More]

Interesting post, but I do know how vision works and the two views are combined. I didn't think there was a 3rd 2D image though, because if there was then that would be visible to both eyes (assuming it was unpolarised) and would throw off the 3D because we evolved to see 3D by combining images from two eyes. Certainly, IMAX 3D only uses 2 projectors, and realD projects in 2 alternating polarisations (plus 3D cameras are stereoscopic).

As for the quality, I wish I could look... Don't have any way to see the SE now

[nerys]

Hmmm not sure I just know as I held each lens over my eye I saw a "different blur" zone double image.

I assumed the movie itself was the "background" so to speak.

Maybe it flashes a different blur back and forth (it HAS to show each eye something different for you to percieve depth. IE there has to be THREE contents on the screen.

Just like the early red green movies. They simply replaced the RED and GREEN offsets with polarized offsets.

Here is a good example to show how you "get" this offset in both eyes

YouTube - How do polarized stereo 3D glasses work?

It seems you still get the double image but they SHIFT ITS polarization so one eye then the other see's it or something

and by using polarization instead of green red they solve TWO problems

one they retain true COLORS and two they eliminate the issue with color blind people.

[nerys]

Got it. this explains it all.

when I saw 3 images I mean LEFT EYE see RIGHT EYE SEE and "the movie" so to speak.

YouTube - THE FILM LAB - How 3D Movies Work

BTW when he shows just his THUMB on the screen with the GHOST of his thumb? THAT is exactly what avatar looked like to me when I saw it.

[X.,.Pandora.,.X]

neyrs knows alot about 3D

[nerys]

well only because I can not see it. My first experience as a child was interesting. We were at disney world when the sci fi theme Thriller was being show in 3D - I was like COOL lets go see that.

I was getting rather bored when this asteroid was floating on the screen just spinning away doing nothing. I was starting to get fidgity and turned to ask my dad if the movie was broken and was a wee stunned to see the entire place had gone MAD with people reaching up into the air above our heads at NOTHING. as hard as I looked up I could see nothing but the ceiling.

After the film I asked what was going on - this is when I discovered I could not see 3D AT ALL.

We went to see the eye doctor when we got home and he explained why. that seeing Depth requires 2 eyes and 3D movies use thsi by showing each eye a seperate perspective inducing aspect. since I could only see out of one eye (I did not even NOTICE I could only see out of one eye up to that point as it was never relevant) I could not see the 3D effect.

You should have seen me learning to drive :-) took a while to learn to judge vehicular distances and 3 times to pass my test.

I am an excellent driver but some things are insurmountable to me. for example parrellel parking. I was able to ace the MANEUVER immediately no problem I am very good as projected spacial relations (I always ace that part of tests) Very good at mentally visualizing and then enacting.

but there is ONE part of the test that is damned near impossible for me to actually DO except by luck. One requirement is when your DONE the maneuver you must be within 12 inches of the curb. Never a problem for me I Just HIT the curb and I know I am Close enough.

Ahh during the test contact with the curb is instant failure. Errrr ok thats a problem. Took me 3 tries to get "lucky" and be within the 12 inches of the curb. It also means I always keep a VERY large buffer in front of me since if someone slows down slowly enough it takes me a while to calculate that the distance between me and the car is changing. so to be safe I keep my distance and therefore my reaction time length LONG :-) never had a problem but why take a chance.