Is Eywa a fungal organism?

[auroraglacialis]

Yes, HNM, the advantage of superconductors would not be a massive advantage over metal conductivity unless large distances would have to be covered, which would however be the case in a vast neuronetworks as on Pandora. More evidence would be, that hometree with its nearby tree of voices is right on top of a huge superconductor deposit and the Tree of Souls is in the midst of a big chunk of superconductor at the centre of the flux.

However, metal signal transduction (superconductor or not) is faster than chemical potential in animals. In animals, signal transduction is measured in m/s, in communications technology using copper wires, the speed is of magnitudes faster. This is also because a signal in biology has only a limited reach and needs to be transmitted through a chain of cells.

Interestingly, plants and funghi have the ability to transduct signals similarly, though the mechanism is even slower ( Action potential - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ScienceDirect - Biochimica et Biophysica Acta (BBA) - Biomembranes : “Action potentials” in NEUROSPORA CRASSA, a mycelial fungus )

"Eywa" isn't a fungus, it's a network of plants that have somehow evolved something structurally and physiologically similar to nervous systems in animals. While fungi do belong in kingdom animalia, they do not have true nervous systems; they only mimic them structurally.

Well - the grouping is not so. The distinction on Earth is plants from Opisthokonts, the latter is divides into funghi and animals. So funghi are not animals. I propose, on Pandora the distinction is different, with zooplantae taking the place of funghi in that respect, that they are "between" plants and animals. plants and funghi do have networks that are transmitting information. Of course these are on Earth NOT neurons or neurological networks the same way they are in animals. They do react however on signals and input, albeit much slower than animals. More like a mimosae (plant) that folds its leafs when one touches it. If the networks formed by funghi are able to functionally mimic neural networks is as of yet more a fantastic theory by Stamet than scientific fact, though Stamet is not a loony. He invented and researched many applications of funghi. If he thinks it is possible, I would not rule it out. But again - even if it is true, then processing is not as fast as in animals andyou will not be able to tsaheylu with a mushroom (though some people claim that eating some mushrooms gives them a similar feeling )

[ISV Venture Star]

Paul Stamets has seen Avatar! Here are his thoughts:

Since so many people have made the connection between mycelium and Avatar (and no, I have not spoken to James Cameron yet about this), I thought this quote from the Gaia.com home page, re-quoting me from Mycelium Running is apropos:

"I see the mycelium as the Earth's natural Internet, a consciousness with which we might be able to communicate. Through cross-species interfacing, we may one day exchange information with these sentient cellular networks. Because these externalized neurological nets sense any impression upon them, from footsteps to falling tree branches, they could relay enormous amounts of data regarding the movements of all organisms through the landscape."

Good ideas recommend themselves...

Paul Stamets
Source: Mycelium Running: How Mushrooms Can Help Save the World, 2005

Thanks for your positive thoughts. They keep me inspired to continue on this path. We have a planet to save, or at least a species (ourselves). Cheers !

Paul

This article is also worth a read:

Garden Rant: Does James Cameron garden?

[auroraglacialis]

Ha, great! - Where is that quote from? I love Stamets ideas since I have seen him on TED some time ago (I think it was in 2009?). Really inspiring.

I know he believes in the data processing capabilities of mycelium to a high degree, obviously beyond sensing to fallen tree branches. As you have read his book already, does he make good points towards that claim? Is it a sound scientific theory or is it merely a hypothesis of Stamets that it may be so?

[ISV Venture Star]

The quote is one of Stamets' replies to a question posted underneath his TED talk video.

Do I think such a thing might be true? No. I kind of want to, it's a beautiful idea, but you know how the saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And the evidence isn't quite extraordinary enough at the moment.

[auroraglacialis]

Yeah -sadly that is true. Actually the evidence is not even below extraordinary, I guess. Did Stamet elaborate on the concept in some talk or in his book (the TED talk you mentioned is probably the one on "saving the world with mushrooms"´, right?) - I mean does he have ANY evidence for this claim or is it just a concept. He is a scientist after all, so making unsubstantiated claims is not exactly something one can easily afford. After all, even the at that time funny notion that contients are moving was at least supported by the matching shape of africa and south america and the presence of identical rock formations along that shape. Of course that theory was first laughed at and now is accepted - my point is though, that to make such a claim, Wegner at least had some evidence that pointed strongly towards it. The structural likeness of mycelium to neural networks alone is not really that much, as such "webs" are present in other nonsentient (at least at the current state of knowledge ) organisms and even inorganic structures as well.

[Human No More]

It's a human tendency to see patters where often none exist. One of the human brain's strongest abilities is pattern recognition (look at human attempts at calculations and attempts to develop pattern recognition in computers, they are the opposite), but that doesn't mean everything is part of one.

[Tiberius]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Aihwa is right. Eywa works in the same way as the human brain, except neurons are replaced with trees and the synapses are the connections between them, plus overall there are more connections.

If you read the survival guide, it says that many plants on Pandora have an animal-like nervous system

No . Eywa does not work like the human brain, and there is nowhere in the film where anyone says this. Eywa displays abilities which appear supernatural, such as foreknowledge of the future (for example in the way she chose Jake). Although Eywa has a physical component, she also has a spiritual component. In an Interview James Cameron described Eywa as an "encompassing Spirit"

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Tiberius

No . Eywa does not work like the human brain, and there is nowhere in the film where anyone says this.

I seem to remember Grace saying exactly that. Or at least, using the human brain as a useful anology. Sure, there is another component to her (or more, given I subscribe to the idea that Eywa also functions as a bit of a hive-mind), but the anology of the human brain is still used.

[Tiberius]

Originally Posted by Ashen Key

I seem to remember Grace saying exactly that. Or at least, using the human brain as a useful anology. Sure, there is another component to her (or more, given I subscribe to the idea that Eywa also functions as a bit of a hive-mind), but the anology of the human brain is still used.

I am well aware of what Grace said, but that does not imply that that Eywa functions as a human mind. Eywa seems to operate on an infinitely higher level.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Tiberius

No . Eywa does not work like the human brain, and there is nowhere in the film where anyone says this. Eywa displays abilities which appear supernatural, such as foreknowledge of the future (for example in the way she chose Jake). Although Eywa has a physical component, she also has a spiritual component. In an Interview James Cameron described Eywa as an "encompassing Spirit"

That's not knowledge of the future, or a group of angtsik would have killed Quaritch the moment he landed on Pandora.
It's intelligence, but not anything special.

[ISV Venture Star]

Originally Posted by Human No More

That's not knowledge of the future, or a group of angtsik would have killed Quaritch the moment he landed on Pandora.
It's intelligence, but not anything special.

It's a bit like that in the scriptment, I guess.


What does everyone make of this as an analogy:

Eywa: superorganism.
Humans: invading pathogen.
Jake Sully/Grace Augustine: antigen.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Tiberius

I am well aware of what Grace said, but that does not imply that that Eywa functions as a human mind. Eywa seems to operate on an infinitely higher level.

Brain =/= mind. Brain is the physical organ that can be scanned - mind is what we CAN'T see, and what is US. Of course Eywa operates on a different level - she's a planet-wide consciousness, not a member of a species. But using a brain is still a useful anology, I think, to understanding. It's a 'brain' made up trees and the connections between them - which I have no problem in believing would be a Pandoran version of fungus. That's the hardware, if you will.

[auroraglacialis]

Mind you that Grace is a scientist. She is focussed on the tangible physical structure and that is the "brain", the connected trees, the neuron-like connections. For once, that may not even be everything there is to it. They were just starting to learn after all! And secondly to know the basic structure of the "brain" does not mean to know how it works. Like people used to think that 90% of the human brain is not used. That turned out to be nonsense...
I can imagine, that the "brain" of Eywa is not simply trees and roots on a macroscopic scale. I could not find a screenshot that showed that readout on graces screen when Norm said "its that fast" after poking a needle in a root. (Maybe someone has one?), but what showed up there was not like one big line of light per root - it was more like something in the roots or covering the roots. (like in this here: http://oneknightstands.files.wordpre...r-hd-00071.jpg) . Also the night pictures, they semed to show a glowing web that did not follow the visible roots, which actually were dark at times but crossed the landscape. So I can imagine, that Grace and her buddies did not (yet) see everything that happens, just imagine a world like Pandora - it would take decades to just grasp the basics of the ecology. We dont even understand the ecology of Earth yet and spent years of work and hordes of scientists on it

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Tiberius

No . Eywa does not work like the human brain, and there is nowhere in the film where anyone says this. Eywa displays abilities which appear supernatural, such as foreknowledge of the future (for example in the way she chose Jake). Although Eywa has a physical component, she also has a spiritual component. In an Interview James Cameron described Eywa as an "encompassing Spirit"

There's nowhere it says that.
Grace describes the structure very well, and there was no demonstrable knowledge of the future - or otherwise, why not prevent the destruction of Hometree and the tree of voices? or even the RDA's arrival on Pandora? Why not just blow up the ISVs if Eywa really is some kind of mystical superbeing as you seem to think?

[auroraglacialis]

WTF? - Why is my post ("Yesterday, 12:02 PM ") showing up above HNM's ("Yesterday, 11:43 PM ")?