Ways To Cope With The Depression Of The Dream Of Pandora Being Intangible.

[auroraglacialis]

Warning - long text, as I reply to several posts

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

Especially because of complications that have risen recently with the LN RL tribe, because of political crap jamming up the process of acquiring land. It seems everytime I want to make a break for my freedom, there's the Sturmabteilung standing in my way.

What are these problems. I have to admit that I have not been following them lately. Are they already that far that they are getting land? Anyways - the underlying problem is, that the dominant culture is not really in favour of other ways of life. And it does not care if it is native indigenous people or people who want to become indigenous (meaning origina/unique to one place) once again. If it was not for the tromendous public relation affair the traditional people can cause, I have no doubt they would be gone already.

The people in power dont want anyone to leave. It is the only way, people can really harm them. Revolutions can be fought, protests can be teargassed, petitions can be ignored, ... but there is much less you can do to keep people from walking away. Still there are things that can be done and those are mostly legal bull - indigenous people of any kind have to put up with laws and regulation and ownership issues and they have to fight with the weapons of the enemy, with lawyers and books.

This world ain't for you and me, kid. Maybe at one time, but not now. I'm fighting, but dammit it's difficult.

I see you, my brother. I sometimes feel that gloomy also. I know that this industrialized world is not for us - its not home...

Originally Posted by caveman

This is perhaps the biggest misconception running around these forums - that there is body else. Nobody cares, nobody sees, nobody wants a meaningful life. That is not true.

That is very true. There are so many. I dare say that it is even a majority of people that care. Many are not willing to act on it or even to admit it to themselves, but many are. But they all feel that misconception, that they are alone, that no one else does feel like they do. This is what has to happen - these people have to come together. And in patches they are. Maybe that is the biggest effect protests and rallies have - they most often cant stop the thing they protest, but they show people that they are not alone.

I dont know if any of you looked into that rather new ageish "indigo child" phenomenon. I dont want to give it any credit, but suffice to say that the questionnaire one can take to find out if one is "one of them" holds interesting questions. I have no doubt most of us here would get a straight A in that "test", but there is the claim that this is true for most people that ever take it. So that is what is taken as evidence of it beeing a fraud. But looking beyond that, what does it mean - it means that many many people say "yes" to questions like "You have the feeling that you are not at home here, maybe even from another planet" or "You have trouble functioning in the system, have trouble accepting authority" and questions on the relationship to earth, nature and spirituality.
So even if answering these does not mean anything in respect of some special aura or something - the fact that there are so many that fit into these tell me that we are way not alone!

Originally Posted by Fkeu'itan

I don't think there will ever be a place on this Earth where i'll be able to feel that severance with the modern world that I have always longed for. I'm searching for such places - it's the only reason I feel at all alive at the moment - but I don't know if i'll ever find them.
Because i'll always know in the back of my mind that 'modern civisation' and all the trappings of that is just a stone's throw away.

Well, It is hard indeed. Impossible in my country for sure. I tried, but you cant even get in any place you dont hear the noise of cars or machines in the distance. Even going into the mountains, you meet people, you see cablecars and forest roads. There are some beautiful places though, even if civ is just behind the corner. They can give power and a good feeling. True distance I hardly ever experienced. Just glimpses. I was in south Africa for geological mapping and I was at least so much seperated from civ, that I had to walk some hours to get back to the truck. Still, even there of course you could see telephone lines and sheep fences. I know there are some places that are truely far away, but they are few...

Originally Posted by Human No More

Those ARE what inspire me... there isn't anything on Earth that matches them. I don't have any particular vision for here because it isn't my home.
Maybe I am waiting for something, even though I don't expect things to ever happen... Is that really such a bad thing though?
I'm making the best of what I'm stuck with, but it's never going to be perfect.[...]
what makes thing much worse for me is that the emotional part is THEORETICALLY possible...But it isn't going to happen.

Ok, HNM I understand that. It may get tough with time though, as to have dreams that are really not just not coming true but also dont inspire towards things in your life can be exhausting very much in the long run...

That part on the emotional part is what I meant. It is theoretically possible, it is at the edges of our grasp. One could reach it, but one could also fail and in any case it would be quite a piece of work to get there. But that is what makes these things even tougher. I can (even with some pain in my heart) tell myself that floating mountains will never be real here and I can bring myself to accept that, but the emotional side, the social and even spiritual side - these are things that are tangible and that makes it very hard to put them off, as I know that they are in theory possible. Yes, it makes it even harder!

Originally Posted by ISV Venture Star

We know that the lives of hunter-gatherers are and were unpleasant. Death in infancy, death from disease, murder. All common. But still we feel the pull.
I think that we yearn for this because a hunter-gatherer lifestyle (as nasty as it was) is the one evolution primed us for.

Dito - I always was fascinated at the thought of living in the "stone age". And yes, I think it is because that is what humans evolved to do. That agricultural lifestyle with its rise of hierarchy and mass society did not suit us well and the industrial lifestyle that is an even shorter blip in the human history is even worse as it even removes our way of life even more from the primal blueprint.
Now I dont believe that hobbesian world view of nasty, brutish and short lives of the aboriginal people. From an anthropological atandpoint that image cannot be held up. But thats not the point now - The point I want to make is that people evolved to live in small band societies, in tribes and clans, supporting each other to survive and live to tell stories and to collaborate in hunting and gathering. Our minds and our bodies evolved to that. The agricultural revolution destroyed that, people started to die early because of malnutrition from monocrops, they became shorter for the same reason, thea became more agressive and depressive due to the hierarchy that formed. They became stressed as they had to work more and more and lived in denser and denser populated cities with strangers.
The way out would be to recreate this setting. Not focussing on the level of technology now, I just say, that the way people live now - in huge cities, detached from each other, from the land from their nature is not working.

I also wonder whether the story of Eden, the unspoilt wilderness of the Abrahamic religions, arose from some ancient oral tale about the world before farming, the world before bread and rice and cities. Did they feel the pull as much as we do?

Hah - I have been saying that for a long time now and I think it is very true. If you have the time, read "Ishmael" from Daniel Quinn (it is available as text or pdf in the interwebz also). I just read it some weeks ago and it basically confirmed that all by making a very detailled analysis of the Christian Story. I also read recently, that elements like this are within Nordic mythology, where the original gods of the wild nature were accompanied by pastueral gods that worked well with them but then agricultural gods came and there was a fight. They forged a truce, but the cost of that eats at the fabric of the relationship between all of them until at the end of time, Ragnarök will happen as the world cannot bear it anymore and the gods of the wild will rise up...

So basically the old myths are full of it. Gilgamesh is another one - the story of agricultural people deforesting ancient lands and getting in trouble with the wild nature that does not want to go and people that are on its side.

I think it was a huge struggle from the beginning. What we see now with amazonian tribes that have to fend off farmers started 10.000 years ago and was not less horrifying back then. And it took its place in our mythology...

Greetings, Aurora