Religion; The Greatest Story Ever Sold.

[Советский меч]

Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes

It's just a being I consider a model. Sometimes I call it Eywa, sometimes She, sometimes Truth. Sometimes it's shapeless, sometimes I want to picture it as a thin, tall and blond female with serious face and plain body with a silky, large dress; sometimes I want it to be a guide. Sometimes I dream of her.

I can't say what it is exactly (since I am constantly changing on that aspect); but at least for me I can say it's something.

God? I don't know.

It's something I respect, I love and I feel connected to. And what's sure is that it represents everything I believe in: Truth, Love and Honesty.

Strange religion, this of mine; isn't it?

When you think about it, its not all that strange, especially when compared to an invisible man in the clouds who is all perfect and powerful yet cant seem to create a perfect world. Where are you from?

[ZenitYerkes]

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow

When you think about it, its not all that strange, especially when compared to an invisible man in the clouds who is all perfect and powerful yet cant seem to create a perfect world. Where are you from?

From Spain, a mainly Catholic country. I am even being taught in that creed, by the Jesuits; hence why I know well what Catholicism and Christianity mean, and even still use some quotes from the Bible. I think there is much good in there; but as everything it's not perfect.

But I have to say that when you are really into it (any religion actually), you really feel the connection to the deity you worship. When I was child I said I wanted to be Pope and all.

Well, I've changed; but I do appreciate religion as a large set up that can teach good moral values. It's not perfect, yes; and there's people who ruin the whole system, but I believe it's not such a bad thing.

There are just some buggers there.

[Woodsprite]

@Zenit: I don't "discard" the Doppler effect. Though, you're basing your assumptions of the big bang on a few things...

And by "dirt" I meant the hypothetical nature of the beginning of the earth, not necessarily all matter in the universe. I understand perfectly how dirt isn't technically the "beginning" according to evolutionism. That's reserved for colliding branes of gravity, but that's another subject.

[Советский меч]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

@Zenit: I don't "discard" the Doppler effect. Though, you're basing your assumptions of the big bang on a few things...

And by "dirt" I meant the hypothetical nature of the beginning of the earth, not necessarily all matter in the universe. I understand perfectly how dirt isn't technically the "beginning" according to evolutionism. That's reserved for colliding branes of gravity, but that's another subject.

In the beginning god... wait wait, where did he come from?

He created everything in 6 days and rested on the 7th... wait, he gets tired?

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow

In the beginning god... wait wait, where did he come from?

In the beginning, gravity... wait, where did gravity come from?

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow

He created everything in 6 days and rested on the 7th... wait, he gets tired?

The symbolic nature of the God of the Bible is beyond your comprehension.








Why are you doing this?

What's in it for you to ridicule religion? specifically Christianity? Do you get kicks from it? How much of any religion have you studied thoroughly from an unbiased source?

[Советский меч]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

In the beginning, gravity... wait, where did gravity come from?


The symbolic nature of the God of the Bible is beyond your comprehension.








Why are you doing this?

What's in it for you to ridicule religion? specifically Christianity? Do you get kicks from it? How much of any religion have you studied thoroughly from an unbiased source?

Lol, are you suggesting gravity doesnt exist? Also where did you get the idea gravity was the beginning?


I expected such an answer. Its the same one I always get, that we wont be able to understand god, like I say to most, its hard to understand something that doesnt exist.

[ZenitYerkes]

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow

Lol, are you suggesting gravity doesnt exist? Also where did you get the idea gravity was the beginning?


I expected such an answer. Its the same one I always get, that we wont be able to understand god, like I say to most, its hard to understand something that doesnt exist.

St Thomas Aquinas did had the same struggle about understanding God. He says he found one day he was walking by the seaside a little boy digging on the sand. When he asked him what he was doing, the boy replied "I am going to put all the water of the wide sea into this hole". Thomas told him that was impossible, but the child answered "Then don't try to comprehend God, it'd be as useless as this".

What happened after, I don't know.

But they say God is the reason that needs no reason, the cause that needs no cause and the being that needs no beginning. It's the first motor, what makes everything just be and what creates everything from the nothing.

At least that's from a Christian perspective.

But I have to say, when questioning about the beginning of everything you have to consider just two options: admit there is a first cause (aka God, although not necessarily) or that there has been something before, and therefore everything existed forever.

It's what I call circular conception. There is no beginning in a circle and there is no end, although you can pick up a point and follow the perimeter until you reach the same point; also, there are infinite points on a circle to go through. That translated to the Universe language: time is infinite, yet periodical; and there is always the same amount of matter (by matter I mean any thing that exists) but is in constant movement.

It's a risky theory and not proved yet, but I think it's worth considering.

PS: Perhaps maths can help here. 0*infinite = something (undetermined); this means from an infinite amount of nothing, something appears. That or that there always has to be something.

[Fosus]

If it could be proven that God does exist in some form, it wouldn't be a belief anymore.

I don't believe in god, I don't know what to believe... but I do respect everyones opinions on this.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow

Lol, are you suggesting gravity doesnt exist?

I never suggested such a thing. I'm simply asking you where gravity came from. It's a simple question.

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow

Also where did you get the idea gravity was the beginning?

Superstring theory. If you understood the big bang (which you constantly claim is "hardcore proof" for evolutionism), you'd know what I was referring to.

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow

I expected such an answer. Its the same one I always get, that we wont be able to understand god, like I say to most, its hard to understand something that doesnt exist.

Even though you still have yet to provide evidence that He doesn't exist...

And considering the irony surrounding how I know more about a theory that you believe and I don't, I think it's safe to say I never expected such an answer from someone who claimed he knew about what he believed... and later showed otherwise, topping it with acclaimed proofs of non-existence, even though those haven't been established either...

...yeah.

[Taw Tsamsiyu]

Are you saying that yahweh exists because we can't prove that he doesn't exist?

[Советский меч]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

I never suggested such a thing. I'm simply asking you where gravity came from. It's a simple question.


Superstring theory. If you understood the big bang (which you constantly claim is "hardcore proof" for evolutionism), you'd know what I was referring to.



Even though you still have yet to provide evidence that He doesn't exist...

And considering the irony surrounding how I know more about a theory that you believe and I don't, I think it's safe to say I never expected such an answer from someone who claimed he knew about what he believed... and later showed otherwise, topping it with acclaimed proofs of non-existence, even though those haven't been established either...

...yeah.

Lets make a deal, you provide evidence of his existence and i will provide evidence of his non-existence, how about that? Although I believe the very absense of evidence proving his existence is strong evidence against his existence. Like I say, I cant prove fairies and goblins dont exist, but thats no reason to believe in them. I never claimed I knew everything about the big bang, nor do I have to, you dont know everything about god and yet you worship him. it just requires thinking and logic to believe in science, something religion seems to have none of. Im strongly against any religion that believes in a bieng who created everything, not just christianity.

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin

[Советский меч]

Originally Posted by Taw Tsamsiyu

Are you saying that yahweh exists because we can't prove that he doesn't exist?

Sadly my friend thats one of religions strongest yet weakest arguments.

[rapunzel77]

Originally Posted by Harvester of Sorrow

I never claimed I knew everything about the big bang, nor do I have to, it just requires thinking and logic, something religion seems to have none of.

Harvester: this is one of the reasons why it is virtually impossible to discuss this topic with you. In order to have a discussion there must be mutual respect for each other. You have on more than one occasion demonstrated that you have zero respect for people who are religious. You are the only one who has done this. No one else has. I can speak with some of the other atheists on TOS with no problem because there is a mutual respect but how can Woodsprite or myself have a discussion about this with you if you post stuff like this?

I honestly wonder if you have ever undertaken a serious study of religion. I don't mean reading what Dawkins or other popular writers say on the subject. I mean actually reading religious writings and the philosophies behind them from people who have actual religious belief. You might be surprised that there are many religious people who are thinkers and have logic.

None of the religious people on TOS has insulted you. We have all be respectful and I know that other atheists on this board are also respectful of others beliefs even when they disagree with them. The discussion was friendly until you pull this. Why? It is immature and uncalled for.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Taw Tsamsiyu

Are you saying that yahweh exists because we can't prove that he doesn't exist?

No. I'm saying you cannot produce any proof that God doesn't exist, which means you also can't claim your opinion on God is anymore logical than any monotheist's.

@Harvester: Your religion (atheism) cannot dictate what is and isn't true just by saying it's more logical. I assert that atheism is an illogical belief (which I wrote quite an article about). And the argument Taw brought up is by no means an "example" for any religious person's primary argument. If you think this is true, you are very uninformed and in need of religion classes from NYU immediately.

[Советский меч]

Originally Posted by rapunzel77

Harvester: this is one of the reasons why it is virtually impossible to discuss this topic with you. In order to have a discussion there must be mutual respect for each other. You have on more than one occasion demonstrated that you have zero respect for people who are religious. You are the only one who has done this. No one else has. I can speak with some of the other atheists on TOS with no problem because there is a mutual respect but how can Woodsprite or myself have a discussion about this with you if you post stuff like this?

I honestly wonder if you have ever undertaken a serious study of religion. I don't mean reading what Dawkins or other popular writers say on the subject. I mean actually reading religious writings and the philosophies behind them from people who have actual religious belief. You might be surprised that there are many religious people who are thinkers and have logic.

None of the religious people on TOS has insulted you. We have all be respectful and I know that other atheists on this board are also respectful of others beliefs even when they disagree with them. The discussion was friendly until you pull this. Why? It is immature and uncalled for.

I said religion not the members of TOS. There is no need for me to study it, I have absolutely no interst in it at all. Trust me, I dont have to read about an invisible man for me to not believe in him.