Playing God.

[josie20]

Originally Posted by Spock

Ah, that's right. But there is always a risk present and there always will be.

True, but this is why forethought is important, to be able to acknowledge the risk and avoid damaging consequences. Of course, they may not be 100% avoidable, but most of the time they can be with proper forethought and a good set of morals. Morals may seem irrelevant, but they're not really. Maybe it's just me, but sometimes it seems like people don't think about consequences.

ZenitYerkes mentions thalidomide, this could have been totally avoidable. People where using this drug for illnesses that could have been treated by natural means. Instead people were taking this drug and the results were devastating. Of course most people were legitimately ignorant to the side affects, but again, could have been avoided if they would have used natural cures found in nature.

I've mentioned these books before over at AF, but I highly recommend them. The pharmaceutical industry is a bad joke...worse actually. Nature provides the things we need...no need to "play God", if you want to call it that.

A couple pharmaceutical related links:Statistics prove prescription drugs are 16,400% more deadly than terrorists
Drugs Kill More People Than Ever, Report Finds


Well, that's all from me for now.

[Isard]

Josie, what your suggesting isn't an abandonment of technology, its simply a regression. If we abandoned all technology, we would die. Our ability to adapt our environment is really our only survival mechanism. We don't have claws, or tails, or even a decent set of teeth tbh...

Going back 200 years in technology, is still technology. The bow and arrow? That's technological advancement, not only was it used for hunting, but it gave humanity the ability to wage war from a distance.

So truly, humanity will never be independent of technology, its as inherent to us as breathing.

[josie20]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

Josie, what your suggesting isn't an abandonment of technology, its simply a regression. If we abandoned all technology, we would die. Our ability to adapt our environment is really our only survival mechanism. We don't have claws, or tails, or even a decent set of teeth tbh...

Going back 200 years in technology, is still technology. The bow and arrow? That's technological advancement, not only was it used for hunting, but it gave humanity the ability to wage war from a distance.

So truly, humanity will never be independent of technology, its as inherent to us as breathing.

I agree completely. I guess I should have chosen my words more carefully.

My point, though I may have done a poor job of conveying this, was that technology isn't bad, we just need to start being more careful with how we use it. I mean, we(humans) should have been careful to begin with. But there was no foresight or forethought.

I honestly wouldn't mind going back 200 years in technology. I know most people will disagree with that. But I'm making plans to start my own journey to regress, as it were. It will take several years, and I may fail, but I still want to try. I hope our generation(assuming you're around my age) can turn things around. I don't mean regress, but start being responsible.

[Woodsprite]

Without the technology we currently possess, Avatar wouldn't exist, there wouldn't be any internet, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

In fact, if we were living on tech of 200 years ago all this time, we'd be dying to become more industrialized. The cotton gin, for instance: that was like... freakin' awesome. Then we got the camera. Like... omg. Then later we invented the incandescent bulb. *dies*

[Isard]

Originally Posted by josie20

I agree completely. I guess I should have chosen my words more carefully.

My point, though I may have done a poor job of conveying this, was that technology isn't bad, we just need to start being more careful with how we use it. I mean, we(humans) should have been careful to begin with. But there was no foresight or forethought.

I honestly wouldn't mind going back 200 years in technology. I know most people will disagree with that. But I'm making plans to start my own journey to regress, as it were. It will take several years, and I may fail, but I still want to try. I hope our generation(assuming you're around my age) can turn things around. I don't mean regress, but start being responsible.

Then this brings up new questions. What kinds of tech are going to be considered good, vs the evil stuff?


Going back to the bow... Are you going to allow yourself the use of a compound bow for efficiency, or is that becoming too modern? What kinds of advancements are going to be allowed within your own social structures?

Its only natural for people to wonder how they can accomplish a task better, and that naturally leads to advancement. More so for a regressed people, as they already know many things that can be used to ease tasks.

[josie20]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

Then this brings up new questions. What kinds of tech are going to be considered good, vs the evil stuff?


Going back to the bow... Are you going to allow yourself the use of a compound bow for efficiency, or is that becoming too modern? What kinds of advancements are going to be allowed within your own social structures?

Its only natural for people to wonder how they can accomplish a task better, and that naturally leads to advancement. More so for a regressed people, as they already know many things that can be used to ease tasks.

Like I said, tech itself is not good or bad, it's how we use it. But, if you must know, I consider anything that does unnecessary damage to the environment to be less than desirable. No matter how hard we try, we will always affect the environment is some way, no matter how minuscule. But for example, people starting using paper, paper leads to deforestation. However, this can also be done in a responsible way. Paper(or other wood related products) are not evil. People just weren't always responsible(and still aren't in some cases) in the way they retrieved wood for paper and other things. But that is just one example.

About the bow and other such things, I want to live tribal, or if you prefer, like the Na'vi. This is a group I joined in attempt to accomplishing these things. Everything is outlined there. They will have some modern tech in a separate camp, which, when reading the details, is a good idea.

I still have many, MANY, things to work out. But I might live like the Na'vi or perhaps in a secluded cabin. To be honest, I really don't know yet.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by josie20

True, but this is why forethought is important, to be able to acknowledge the risk and avoid damaging consequences. Of course, they may not be 100% avoidable, but most of the time they can be with proper forethought and a good set of morals. Morals may seem irrelevant, but they're not really. Maybe it's just me, but sometimes it seems like people don't think about consequences.

ZenitYerkes mentions thalidomide, this could have been totally avoidable. People where using this drug for illnesses that could have been treated by natural means. Instead people were taking this drug and the results were devastating. Of course most people were legitimately ignorant to the side affects, but again, could have been avoided if they would have used natural cures found in nature.

I've mentioned these books before over at AF, but I highly recommend them. The pharmaceutical industry is a bad joke...worse actually. Nature provides the things we need...no need to "play God", if you want to call it that.

A couple pharmaceutical related links:Statistics prove prescription drugs are 16,400% more deadly than terrorists
Drugs Kill More People Than Ever, Report Finds


Well, that's all from me for now.

Yes I didn't dispute the need for forsight, that's another thing that will always be necessary for technological advancement.

I'm not going to debate pharmaceuticals right now, I've had 10 page debates over that on A.F with brianct. It's not fun.

[fkeua vrrtep]

Where there is no rulegiver , there are no rules.

How should we be able to know or decide what we should do and what not , we never got stopped by anyone ,nobody ever said "Thats' wrong".

Life is like a game you play in a foggy night , without knowing the rules.

And since we are part of what I consider "god" (no white-bearded man) , we are the creators .

So what if there was a higher being asking itself "Am I allowed to do this or do that , am I allowed to create a new species/is it wrong or right?" , now think of us as another being , the creator who doubts his creations and doesn't know if he should go further.

[ZenitYerkes]

Originally Posted by fkeua vrrtep

Where there is no rulegiver , there are no rules.

How should we be able to know or decide what we should do and what not , we never got stopped by anyone ,nobody ever said "Thats' wrong".

Life is like a game you play in a foggy night , without knowing the rules.

And since we are part of what I consider "god" (no white-bearded man) , we are the creators .

So what if there was a higher being asking itself "Am I allowed to do this or do that , am I allowed to create a new species/is it wrong or right?" , now think of us as another being , the creator who doubts his creations and doesn't know if he should go further.

Nobody is to tell us what we should or shouldn't do: that's our choice. However, I throw out the question: are we actually superior beings? Should we take in count the rest of species that inhabit Earth? And, when should we stop?

Anyway, we should be careful of what we create, because we're responsible of what we make of our freedom. And being responsible is not only "Oh yes I did it, so what?". It means also to put everything back on its place when things go wrong. I say if we keep playing with things we shouldn't, the whole system will turn against us. And I am not only referring to the anthroposphere (cities, countries, government, society,...), but also the biosphere, the hydrosphere, atmosphere,... or any other Earth sphere.

If you break the balance of one of them, it can slowly turn back to its previous stage or disappear. And if you live in such systems, be careful of what you make of them; because it's the land where you put your feet on.

If that made any sense.

EDIT

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

Without the technology we currently possess, Avatar wouldn't exist, there wouldn't be any internet, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I really wish we didn't have the need of discussing this.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes

Nobody is to tell us what we should or shouldn't do: that's our choice. However, I throw out the question: are we actually superior beings? Should we take in count the rest of species that inhabit Earth? And, when should we stop?

In all truth, never.

[ZenitYerkes]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

In all truth, never.

Stop for the sake of stopping, never.
Stop because it harms us, or does not produce any benefit to us, always.
Stop because it harms someone else, or does not benefit them, perhaps.

That sums in a few words the human stopping policy.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes

Stop for the sake of stopping, never.
Stop because it harms us, or does not produce any benefit to us, always.
Stop because it harms someone else, or does not benefit them, perhaps.

That sums in a few words the human stopping policy.

Exactly. We're always going to want to make "it" better. Its our nature.

[ZenitYerkes]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

Exactly. We're always going to want to make "it" better. Its our nature.

Yeah.

Problem comes when we just care about ourselves and don't give a damn about the rest of species on Earth, the people below us, the environment,... That "someone else" stands for all of them.

Perhaps we should stop, perhaps not... But if it still benefits us, it's more likely choosing not to stop ever. No matter how much we could harm.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes

Yeah.

Problem comes when we just care about ourselves and don't give a damn about the rest of species on Earth, the people below us, the environment,... That "someone else" stands for all of them.

Perhaps we should stop, perhaps not... But if it still benefits us, it's more likely choosing not to stop ever. No matter how much we could harm.

Doesn't matter, imperialism is inherant in human nature. If something benefits us then it's almost certain that we'll utilize that opportunity even if it damages another party to a lesser or greater extent.

[ZenitYerkes]

Originally Posted by Spock

Doesn't matter, imperialism is inherant in human nature. If something benefits us then it's almost certain that we'll utilize that opportunity even if it damages another party to a lesser or greater extent.

And greed, and egoism, and altruism as well,... They're all basic instincts, present in every single animal behavior. Territorial instinct, or defending your sons or your family from an external aggressor; for example.

But what makes us different from animals is that we can control our behavior. Hence why we don't jump on of the first good-looking female we find.

If we are really human beings, we should be able to prioritize what's good for all before our interests. Impose the "them" before the "I". If not, humanity will be doomed. And this planet with it.

Unfortunately, some do act as a bunch of apes.