Male Or Female?

[Icu]

Originally Posted by Aquaplant

Other than actions associated with reproduction? Since logically it shouldn't need to affect much else behaviour wise.

Hormones, for one. There are tons of things that are physically different in males and females, right down to stuff as fundamental as differences in the ways our brains work. Together these, in general, account for all kinds of differences between how we think/feel/act.

Of course there are all kinds of similarities as well and nothing is set in stone, but it's absolutely not only the result of "society".

[Aquaplant]

Originally Posted by Icu

Hormones, for one. There are tons of things that are physically different in males and females, right down to stuff as fundamental as differences in the ways our brains work. Together these, in general, account for all kinds of differences between how we think/feel/act.

Of course there are all kinds of similarities as well and nothing is set in stone, but it's absolutely not only the result of "society".

Yes I'm aware of the physical differences, but as far as nature goes, its only concern is to make us procreate and everything else is just auxiliary. So then why would there be an need to behave in a certain manner that's not relevant to this process?

Also a part of our behaviour is controlled, since we usually think before we act, at least on most occasions. We have to take others into consideration, being the happy social monkeys that we are. As in if we observe that certain kind of behaviour is more socially productive, we instinctively tend to repeat that more compared to something with no effects or negative ones.

Even though brains are different, they can still work many of the same basic pathways that are required in social interaction. So as far as conscious behaviour is concerned, we should be able to mimic the behaviour of both.

It's difficult to study human behaviour since there are too many variables to determine what produces what, and what is the absolute result of something else etc. But my stance is always sceptical towards everything, and thus I try to reason as much as possible while judging my feeble subjective senses on the matter.

[Icu]

Originally Posted by Aquaplant

Yes I'm aware of the physical differences, but as far as nature goes, it's only concern is to make us procreate and everything else is just auxiliary. So then why would there be an need to behave in a certain manner that's not relevant to this process?

There doesn't have to be a "need" to behave in a certain way in order to observe very strong behavioral patterns. And it's not just to make us procreate, it's to make us procreate more efficiently. So if females and males acting differently (as the result of physical factors or otherwise) increases this efficiency then nature will tend to make us different.

Originally Posted by Aquaplant

Also a part of our behaviour is controlled, since we usually think before we act, at least on most occasions. We have to take others into consideration, being the happy social monkeys that we are. As in if we observe that certain kind of behaviour is more socially productive, we instinctively tend to repeat that more compared to something with no effects or negative ones.

This has got to be part of what makes us similar. My point is just that there are some fundamental differences between males and females that we are, in general, unable to think our way out of. Imagine being injected with hormones from the opposite sex.

[Aquaplant]

Originally Posted by Icu

There doesn't have to be a "need" to behave in a certain way in order to observe very strong behavioral patterns. And it's not just to make us procreate, it's to make us procreate more efficiently. So if females and males acting differently (as the result of physical factors or otherwise) increases this efficiency then nature will tend to make us different.

Somehow I'm not convinced that it's quite as sophisticated as that as far as only behaviour is concerned, since complex behaviour is not required for procreation, only the physical act of having intercourse is needed, and that doesn't even need to be consensual. Then again maybe it's the genetic theory of having preference to things that differ from oneself, since that way the sufficient variance is preserved in the genetic material, as opposed to inbreeding.

Life is a competition to have the most copies of one's genetic material in it, so those who are most successful in this regard, usually have the intended set of instructions as to the way it's meant to be done. So for men this would mean to sleep with as many women as possible. Women on the other hand get the shorter end of the stick in this regard, since they must always wait out the time of pregnancy before having another go at it.

This has got to be part of what makes us similar. My point is just that there are some fundamental differences between males and females that we are, in general, unable to think our way out of. Imagine being injected with hormones from the opposite sex.

That's without a doubt, but I'm interested in the fact as to what is the ratio when measuring what behaviour is instinctively based on physical reference, and what is the result of conscious decision making. Hormones for instance may make you want things, but whether or or not one acts on those wants is another matter entirely. The difference in how we behave and how we want to behave etc.

[Icu]

Okay. I'm pretty sure we're not actually disagreeing

[Advent]

Originally Posted by Icu

Imagine being injected with hormones from the opposite sex.

Mind wipe please.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by Advent

Mind wipe please.

They used to use that as a "cure" for homosexuality about 50 years ago.

*hands over brain bleach*

[Moco Loco]

Terrible.

Whatever may be the reasons we act as we do, cultural or chemical or otherwise, I think I'd be pretty acceptable as either male or female. If I had been a boy, my name would have been "Brady"

[Human No More]

Actually, both males and females have both testosterone and oestrogen naturally, just obviously in far differing proportions.

[Aquaplant]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Actually, both males and females have both testosterone and oestrogen naturally, just obviously in far differing proportions.

So that would mean that people who feel like somewhere in between would have some sort of imbalances in their respective hormonal levels.

Still, I don't really understand the third option at all, unless one is really a hermaphrodite, which in itself is another rather interesting concept, like regarding our previous discussions about the benefits of differences between male and female.

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

Whatever may be the reasons we act as we do, cultural or chemical or otherwise, I think I'd be pretty acceptable as either male or female. If I had been a boy, my name would have been "Brady"

On the internet, one can't really tell the difference between male and female unless it's specifically implied in one form or another, like the english language has he/she, whereas not all languages even have such distinction.

Like said, behaviour is mostly irrelevant regarding this particular subject.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Aquaplant

So that would mean that people who feel like somewhere in between would have some sort of imbalances in their respective hormonal levels.

Sometimes (particularly with certain rare genetic disorders), but not always. Sometimes it's psychological and their body is perfectly functional as one gender.

Still, I don't really understand the third option at all, unless one is really a hermaphrodite, which in itself is another rather interesting concept, like regarding our previous discussions about the benefits of differences between male and female.

I think it was intended to mean 'I am one but I have a few traits that might stereotypically be associated with the other', which would describe the vast majority of humans, ever, if not every last one.

[Aquaplant]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Sometimes (particularly with certain rare genetic disorders), but not always. Sometimes it's psychological and their body is perfectly functional as one gender.

And the psychological issues come down to the basic question of how does one exactly feel like male or female? How would anyone know the correct gender for those feelings without an objective reference point?

I think it was intended to mean 'I am one but I have a few traits that might stereotypically be associated with the other', which would describe the vast majority of humans, ever, if not every last one.

Indeed, but it would be mighty boring to have a poll with only one option that covers everyone. Then again it's pointless to add other such restrictive terms as male and female when implying behaviour as a deciding factor. Thus the third option is not comparable with the other two due to its inherently different nature, and that makes this poll fail.

[Niri Te]

Well I hate to say it, but you are mistaken. I was born a Hermaphrodite in 1950, when parents were given the power to choose the childs identity. "Daddy" was a Navy Carrier Pilot, and I was the first born child, so he chose "Male". Too bad he guessed WRONG, that is NOT what my genes say.
I did not know anything about my genetic coding till I was out of the Army, and 29 years old. I KNEW from the time that I was FOUR that I was a FEMALE, I didn't care WHAT my "plumbing" said, and at that time, I did NOT know that the scar in my Peritoneal area was not normal for a "Male".
I went into the Army in 1968, and NO ONE caught it, then, they were looking for fresh meat to stick in the seats of helicopters bound for Vietnam.
When I was 29, in a routine V.A. examination, someone saw the scar, and ordered up a TON of specialized tests, and guess what they found.
To make a long story short, I entered "The Program", and CORRECTED the old man's error in judgement.
The Army even changed the gender on my Medically Discharged I.D. card. ( NO it was for wounds suffered in Vietnam, I was in a coma with multiple skull fractures when I was shot out of the sky.
So I guess you can say that, at birth, I was a whole lot more than a "little" of both.
Niri Te

Originally Posted by Human No More

I don't really understand that option either, either you are male, or female

Well, stuck as requested.

[Ateyo leSyaksyuk]

I am called Toby , or on this forum: Ateyo. I am the wife of Niri Te.
Female body with a boy's brain (commonly known as TOMBOY) but I am perfectly suited as soulmate for Niri Te. Gender is a continuum. Most people are one or the other, some have genetic and physiologic blends. It doesn't bother me you you refer to me as male of female because you will always be have right!

[Pa'li Makto]

Kaltxi.