Could someone hate Avatar, but still "see"? - Page 2 - Tree of Souls

caveman · #1 07-10-2010, 09:29 PM

Thanks for the responses guys...

Well, the reason I asked this was out of curiosity. The real question is "Has the love for Avatar impaired your ability to accept others?"

It's easy to dismiss anyone who didn't love Avatar as "sky-people". But the reality is there are millions of people out there who "see", but may never have seen Avatar, or were turned off by the blue people. Or maybe it was the acting, or the script, or something. But we are not alone. There are people who care about the environment, that challenge modern society, that proactively live out a life as depicted in the movie.

There are a lot of people like this, more than we sometimes give credit for. People willing to change, dreamers, believers. So don't give up hope on humanity, or feel we are all alone and everyone else is unaware. There is good in everyone, maybe they just need an awakening, but give it time. Not all of us were like the way we are now before Avatar. So don't judge others who didn't enjoy the movie as bad people. We need to accept others even if they haven't "awakened" yet. It's not us vs. them - its not like in Avatar - the people who see vs the people who don't. No, we are all one species with the same problems and same difficulties. And we need to respect each other regardless of how much they liked Avatar.

And the reason I bring all of this up, is because I sometimes don't get this sense. Sometimes I get a sense that its us vs. the world, and everyone who disliked Avatar are horrible people, which is not the case. It looks like most people here haven't grown ignorant when it comes Avatar based on the comments. But look at the first post, the first reaction. It's a definite "NO". And I do this sometimes too - generalize, categorize or label an entire population as "blind" or "sky-people". But then I ask myself questions like the thread asks, to keep myself from becoming the exact thing I criticize.

Thoughts? Am I off here? Anyone else get the sense I'm getting sometimes or understand where I'm coming from?

**Icu** · #2 07-10-2010, 09:53 PM

See what?

No really, See what?

As if we're some special group of people who, in being touched by a movie, came to understand the world in a way that no one else can?

Not to be mean, but either I don't get it or the answer is very obviously no

**Isard** · #3 07-10-2010, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icu

See what?

No really, See what?

As if we're some special group of people who, in being touched by a movie, came to understand the world in a way that no one else can?

Not to be mean, but either I don't get it or the answer is very obviously no

There are three kinds of people.

The people who beleive human society is wrong, and want to change it.
(many people here)

The people who dont really care.

And freaks like me who beleive the system can work.

**Woodsprite** · #4 07-10-2010, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aihwa

There are three kinds of people.

The people who beleive human society is wrong, and want to change it.
(many people here)

The people who dont really care.

And freaks like me who beleive the system can work.

...I guess I'm one of those freaks like you, then.

Seriously though, like you already said, there are probably people who understand the concept presented in the film, agree with it, but still hate the film for other reasons. They might think it was poorly acted, filmed, or they thought the story was just stupid.

**Sight Unseen** · #5 07-11-2010, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icu

See what?

No really, See what?

As if we're some special group of people who, in being touched by a movie, came to understand the world in a way that no one else can?

Not to be mean, but either I don't get it or the answer is very obviously no

http://www.tree-of-souls.com/general...w_you_see.html
Does this help?

caveman · #6 07-11-2010, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icu

See what?

No really, See what?

As if we're some special group of people who, in being touched by a movie, came to understand the world in a way that no one else can?

Not to be mean, but either I don't get it or the answer is very obviously no

My point exactly - we are not the only ones who see. Not by a long shot. There are tons of other people who "see" regardless of their views of Avatar. But I sometimes get this sense that we dismiss the rest of the world as "sky-people". And that is clearly not the case.

I think the members here are generally very open-minded nice people. But look at some of the responses to the original question. There's some definite "no"s at first. Really? You think that someone couldn't see because of their views about a particular movie? I'm saying that's ignorant, as in, not open-minded. Obviously "seeing" is just a coin term for preexisting views. Yet sometimes people on this forum get all defensive, and honestly ignorant when it comes to not liking Avatar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxonTirea

Doubt it. People who hate Avatar will bash people who do see, and even if they felt the things, they'd probably squash the feelings and not admit to them.

What I'm pointing out is people's love for Avatar has made them ignorant at times, where as we should accept people regardless of their views on this one particular movie. Avatar-lovers and Avatar-haters can be best friends without any "bashing".

**Woodsprite** · #7 07-11-2010, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caveman

Avatar-lovers and Avatar-haters can be best friends without any "bashing".

Mhm. Like me and my mother.

The rest of your post = gold.

caveman · #8 07-11-2010, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

Mhm. Like me and my mother.

The rest of your post = gold.

haha, well not everyone is going to understand. But we should still accept people for who they are. I'm just assuming that regardless of your mother's views of Avatar, you still love her, and her back. And that's the way it should be. Remember that not every one of us understood the messages behind Avatar before we saw it. Some of us we "blind" so to speak.

And its not a matter of "helping someone see". Trying to force your beliefs and ideals into someone else doesn't work. That's what crazed religious feens do, and that obviously does nothing but drive us away from that particular religion. All you really could do is be yourself and if people like what they see out of you then they will follow our lead purely out of their own interest.

Back to the original question(s) - I ask myself these kinds of questions all the time, they're good self-checks. They can tell a lot about your character or thought process at the moment.

Sempu · #9 07-10-2010, 11:41 PM

That's a great question. There's a lot of talk on these forums about people who "see", and most of us probably have some idea what it means to us, but it's such a nebulous term that we probably all have wildly different definitions. The movie gave a definition of "I see you" but that doesn't generalize to the usage it's been used around here with.

So what do folks mean by "So-and-so *sees*"?

**Isard** · #10 07-11-2010, 12:19 AM

Woodsprite.

No.

You can have your own category.

**Icu** · #11 07-11-2010, 02:08 AM

Hmmm....

Well I get what everyone is saying but trust me this is not an "Avatar only" phenomenon. So the answer is yes, someone can hate Avatar and still "See"

Frankly, I think it's just some inside term taken from the movie that people try to connect extra significance to. As in, the movie becomes more than just a movie because it allows me to "see"

Not that I'm against it at all. It could help me know that I'm talking to an Avatar fan

, but this viewpoint existed before JC decided to make a movie.

**Txum_kali'weya** · #12 07-11-2010, 02:27 AM

yes.
they could hate the effects and still understand the meaning.

**Icu** · #13 07-11-2010, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txum_kali'weya

yes.
they could hate the effects and still understand the meaning.

I've never seen this before. I've seen the opposite. In fact, the opposite is quite popular. It's really hard to hate the special effects.

In fact, that's kind of how I distinguish someone who just didn't like the movie from someone who is a "hater" for no good reason. The effects were arguably the greatest of all time. If you didn't like them, you're just bashing the movie because you can

However, if there are people who didn't like the effects but understood the meaning, i'd say that's more important anyhow.

**Advent** · #14 07-11-2010, 11:44 AM

Completely possible and valid.

Impressionist · #15 07-11-2010, 02:27 PM

One day I visited a polish site with some opinions about Avatar. There were two groups of people fighting with each other. The first group found Avatar just stupid and boring or loved just the special effects and couldn't see any message. The second one (true Avatar fans) tried to open their eyes, but when it didn't work, they all started to offend each other.

I know that we all have to accept everyone else just the way they are, I know we have to be tolerant to others. But I just couldn't read the comments of the first group I mentioned before. It hit me that they were so blind. Why should we accept them, when they don't even try to listen to us and attempt to See. They reject any offers of help. So should we still try? I don't think so.

Personally, I could See from the beginning, long before Avatar was released. I can notice the beauty in everything, notice good and bad aspects of things. And I will never understand that first group of people.