The Original Sin. (Religion)

[josie20]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Yes, but that's not necessarily the same from people who actually have something to gain from others' following them.

Yes, but God has nothing to gain from us following him. The church does, but the church isn't God. In fact, from what I've experienced personally, the church is often the antitheses of God. *please notice I'm speaking of my experiences only. I can't speak for every church. Thus, I'm not generalizing* Rigid, man made rules which are enforced by the church are NOT of God. They are just a way to keep people in church, thus, the church makes more money. Again, like most things, it all boils down to greed. This has NOTHING to do with the love of God. And it's very unfortunate that the church can be this way, because if something ISN"T done out of love, God has nothing to do with it.

But think about it, God has absolutely nothing to gain if we follow Him. We are so insignificant that nothing we do can either benefit or harm Him. And yet, for reasons beyond my own understanding, He still loves us. That's why He wants us to obey Him, because He loves us. Thus, He wants no harm to come to us. This ties in with what I posted before.


And it seems I may have gone terribly off topic

[josie20]

^^^
Sorry, I wasn't talking about sex. I was talking about what I posted before. I'd love to chat about this more but I have to go.

til next time...

[Mune]

Woodsprite. May I remind you that everyone's opinions and points are to be respected.

I've responded countless times to flimsy, silly arguments like this one... but I'll wait and see who's the first to take the bait.

This is quite a provocative statement, avoid these if possible. Remember this is debate, noones opinions are silly as long as they back them up with reason/point.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Mune

Woodsprite. May I remind you that everyone's opinions and points are to be respected.


This is quite a provocative statement, avoid these if possible. Remember this is debate, noones opinions are silly as long as they back them up with reason/point.

Agreed. I just honestly believe that that sort of argument against the Bible is flimsy and silly; no offense intended toward anyone in particular. I just wish there were some better, more thought-out reason to diss on the Bible than just talking about how "evil" God is in the OT from looking at a few verses out of context here and there.


...By the way, that statement was constructed be me, so if creating a fake quote and then ridiculing it makes atheists mad, I guess that means I'm very accurate on the portrayal of their beliefs toward Christianity.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

Agreed. I just honestly believe that that sort of argument against the Bible is flimsy and silly; no offense intended toward anyone in particular. I just wish there were some better, more thought-out reason to diss on the Bible than just talking about how "evil" God is in the OT from looking at a few verses out of context here and there.


...By the way, that statement was constructed be me, so if creating a fake quote and then ridiculing it makes atheists mad, I guess that means I'm very accurate on the portrayal of their beliefs toward Christianity.

Yet most christians believe that book is 100% infalliable and true... Make your mind up, pick one or another to stick to

[Mune]

[Posted by WoodSprite]

..By the way, that statement was constructed be me, so if creating a fake quote and then ridiculing it makes atheists mad, I guess that means I'm very accurate on the portrayal of their beliefs toward Christianity.

Well, I'm not an Atheist... I'm not under any label... And if I DID have to put myself under any specific label, it would be Nihilist. That statement didn't make me angry/mad, it was just very provocative. I'm not *warning* you of it just because I don't agree with it, it's just up to me to keep a level of debate that doesn't end up starting a flame-war.

And... I believe that statements that give huge generalisation-assumptions; like the one you posted; can indeed start a flame war.

See; that's why it's safe to have me as a moderator on this Forum. Nihilist; I'm completely neutral, I don't think anyone is 'wrong' or 'right', I'm just 'the peacekeeper', as it were.

So no; but I'm sure you'd get provoked if I was to make a quote from my experience of the *typical Christians* viewpoint towards the same subject. Be careful.

[josie20]

^^^

Well, I can't speak for Woodsprite, but I believe many of the stories that people view at face-value and think are infallible are actually metaphors.

[rapunzel77]

The Bible can be looked at in at least four different ways. Some parts are clearly metaphors or parables, etc while others are historical and actually happened. We believe that God inspired it so we take what the Bible says to heart. However, some things that are in there are clearly cultural. For instance, very few of us, maybe some Orthodox Jews, follow the law as it was written down in the OT. Some of the things mentioned refers to the tabernacle/temple and all the different rituals involved. Since there isn't a temple anymore, those laws do not apply.


In response to what Woodsprite posted earlier as a hypothetical atheist argument against the Bible, etc this is a view that I have found often online. I think there are many serious misunderstandings concerning religion, especially Christianity. Much of this deals with sex, perceived oppression of women, etc. I might be wrong, but I think the other reason is that some of these people rarely get to know Christians. They seem to rely on media reports or what some fringe groups do such as the Westboro Baptists, etc.

Oftentimes people are afraid of things that they don't understand or have little knowledge of. That is why i try to promote understanding. Sadly, the internet isn't the best tool to do that I fear .

[Mune]

I, am also inclined to believe this one more than the current idea of Adam and Eve, it makes a lot more sense to me.

Adam and Eve - The Assassin's Creed Wiki - Assassins Creed, Assassins Creed 2, walkthroughs, and more

[Tiberius]

Originally Posted by Lyra

Now, in the bible it talks of 'Adam' and 'Eve' in the Garden of Eden. Most of us know this story, and that Eve ate the forbidden apple and both her and adam got banished from the garden and forced to live on earth.

Now, I wish to note something here, I really do believe this to be a metaphor, it wasn't a sin. Eve didn't 'sin' by going after the apple, instead she wanted the apple, not because she wanted to disobey, but because it was something she couldn't have. It's a flaw of human nature, but it's what makes us human.

Eve didn't sin, instead she followed her instinct, which led to her and adam's demise.
-> All Humans have flaws, but that doesn't make them bad.

Also the apple can be seen as not an apple, but as 'intelligence.' Eve wanted to know how things worked so grasped after this 'information.' and was caught by god, it's literally an old version of exactly what's going on today!

Eve Sinned. She disobeyed God and payed the price. The apple is not intelligence, Adam and Eve already had intelligence before they ate the apple.
Some theologians believe that the eating the apple represents sex before marriage. Whatever it represents the fact is that Eve sinned and dragged down Adam as well,as the whole human race.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Tiberius

Some theologians believe that the eating the apple represents sex before marriage. Whatever it represents the fact is that Eve sinned and dragged down Adam as well,as the whole human race.

Maybe so, but the sin that was committed couldn't have actually been sex itself.

[Human No More]

It's a christian metaphor for free will, which they want to suppress.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Human No More

It's a christian metaphor for free will, which they want to suppress.

?

No, we don't. We believe in consequence to certain actions, thus being against them, but we aren't in opposition to free will. We aren't going all out and denying you from doing anything you want (because you can), we're just saying "I told you so" after it boomerangs back.

[Human No More]

Like is happening to the Catholic church at the moment?

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Like is happening to the Catholic church at the moment?

Ok, the Catholics are....

...I'm not a Catholic, so you can exempt me from whatever they're doing. (No offense to Catholics) when I say "Christian" I'm usually referring to Protestants. You're gonna have to consult rapunzel on this one.