Was nuking Nagasaki and Hiroshima right or wrong?

[josie20]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

Josie, and we bombed Berlin to its foundations.


And firebombed Tokyo nearly to the ground. We actually killed more people with napalm during our Tokyo air-raid than both Atomic bombings combined.

I know that. I was just making the point that we weren't the only country to kill civilians.

Regardless, being angry about it won't change the past. And I will certainly not apologize for the actions committed by my country some 65 years ago.

As a result of the two A-bombs, it is estimated that 66,000 people were killed and 69,000 people were injured. According to an estimation by the Supreme Council, a total of 4,000,000 people(American and Japanese) would have died had the bombs not been dropped. Which is the better choice?

[Tiberius]

Originally Posted by josie20

I know that. I was just making the point that we weren't the only country to kill civilians.

Regardless, being angry about it won't change the past. And I will certainly not apologize for the actions committed by my country some 65 years ago.

As a result of the two A-bombs, it is estimated that 66,000 people were killed and 69,000 people were injured. According to an estimation by the Supreme Council, a total of 4,000,000 people(American and Japanese) would have died had the bombs not been dropped. Which is the better choice?

The better choice is taking the more moral mode of action. The end does not jusity the means. There were other options.

[josie20]

Originally Posted by Tiberius

The better choice is taking the more moral mode of action. The end does not jusity the means. There were other options.

That's what I'm asking, though. What is the moral choice, to sacrifice 66,000 people or 4,000,000 people(including civilians)?

Were there other options? Sure. Were they tried? To my knowledge, no. Hindsight is 20/20.

Like I said, I will not apologize for the actions taken by my country 65 years ago, especially when those actions saved millions of US lives. I don't think most people understand the concept of "enemy" and "we want to kill you".

[Tiberius]

Originally Posted by josie20

That's what I'm asking, though. What is the moral choice, to sacrifice 66,000 people or 4,000,000 people(including civilians)?

Were there other options? Sure. Were they tried? To my knowledge, no. Hindsight is 20/20.

Like I said, I will not apologize for the actions taken by my country 65 years ago, especially when those actions saved millions of US lives. I don't think most people understand the concept of "enemy" and "we want to kill you".

When fighting a Just war (such as WW2) there is an honourable way to fight and a dishonourable way to fight. Invading the Japanese mainland may have cost more lives, but at least it would have been more honourable than vapourizing hundreds of thousands of defenceless civilians and leaving a legacy of generations of genetically mutated of Japanese children; and anyway, there were other ways to alert the Japanese to the potential nuclear devastation awaiting them if they did not surrender, destroying two heavily populated cities was not the only way.

[Isard]

Flying planes overhead is easily dismissed as a bluff. The claims we made about the bomb were unheard of.

[X.,.Pandora.,.X]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

Flying planes overhead is easily dismissed as a bluff. The claims we made about the bomb were unheard of.

They dropped leaflets (spelling?) of paper written in Japanese what was coming.

[josie20]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

Flying planes overhead is easily dismissed as a bluff. The claims we made about the bomb were unheard of.

So it's excusable for Japan to gamble with the lives of their civilians?

[X.,.Pandora.,.X]

Originally Posted by josie20

So it's excusable for Japan to gamble with the lives of their civilians?

this^

[Isard]

Originally Posted by josie20

So it's excusable for Japan to gamble with the lives of their civilians?

North Korea claims they have a secret moonbase on the dark side of the moon where they have built a star destroyer. And unless the US pays them 50 trillion dollars, they will unleash it on the world.

That's about what the claims of nuclear weaponry sounded like back then.

[josie20]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

North Korea claims they have a secret moonbase on the dark side of the moon where they have built a star destroyer. And unless the US pays them 50 trillion dollars, they will unleash it on the world.

That's about what the claims of nuclear weaponry sounded like back then.

Yeah, but we aren't currently at war with North Korea. Also, the US, unlike North Korea, was powerful. The Germans were trying to build Nuclear weapons. Because of the nature of the relationship Japan had with Germany(they were allies), I'm sure Japan knew about this. Being such, it wasn't so far fetched to believe the claim of having nuclear weapons.

Anyway, I'm done here.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by josie20

Yeah, but we aren't currently at war with North Korea. Also, the US, unlike North Korea, was powerful. The Germans were trying to build Nuclear weapons. Because of the nature of the relationship Japan had with Germany(they were allies), I'm sure Japan knew about this. Being such, it wasn't so far fetched to believe the claim of having nuclear weapons.

Anyway, I'm done here.

Nobody really believed they could ever be near that powerful. A show of force is fine, but if you can do it WITHOUT civilian casualties, you do it.

[tarzan]

i think that if we didn't nuke them, we would have lost thoulsands of more men, and possibly would not have the freedom we have now...

[tarzan]

i believe we could not have won WWII without inflicing civillian casulaties against Japan. They would have fought to the last man, and apparently so did we. I believe we did what we had to do for us to flourish...

[X.,.Pandora.,.X]

OK, you people aren't getting it across your heads that MORE CIVILIANS WOULD HAVE BEEN KILLED IN AN INVASION.

Aihwa...The Germans shared info about theif nuclear power with the Japanese, they knew a general idea of what it could do.

and Tiberius...The Germans wern't nearly as savage as the Japanese, not even close.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by X.,.Pandora.,.X

OK, you people aren't getting it across your heads that MORE CIVILIANS WOULD HAVE BEEN KILLED IN AN INVASION.

Aihwa...The Germans shared info about theif nuclear power with the Japanese, they knew a general idea of what it could do.

and Tiberius...The Germans wern't nearly as savage as the Japanese, not even close.

This isn't a question of invasion. That's not even a part of the debates premise. Its a question if nuking two cities was right or wrong. It was possible to show American dominance through the nuking of an uninhabited target.


Pandora, nobody but the scientists working on it believed in its potential for destruction. It was considered a pipe dream by most military commanders.