Democracy, the system of systems? - Page 2 - Tree of Souls

**Isard** · #1 09-21-2010, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

With the government wielding almost complete power over everyone? No thanks...

True communism, not Soviet Russia, not Communist China, not North Korea.

That's communism with a totalitarian ruler.

**Woodsprite** · #2 09-21-2010, 04:39 AM

...True communism calls for people to give up their excess goods to the state or to others because the ones who made the excess "doesn't need it" while the people who don't make as much "do need it". That's redistribution of wealth at its finest...

...And that's... wrong.

**Isard** · #3 09-21-2010, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

...True communism calls for people to give up their excess goods to the state or to others because the ones who made the excess "doesn't need it" while the people who don't make as much "do need it". That's redistribution of wealth at its finest...

...And that's... wrong.

That's sharing. Something we love to idolize and demonize at the same time.

**Woodsprite** · #4 09-22-2010, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aihwa

That's sharing. Something we love to idolize and demonize at the same time.

Erm... if the government forces you to "share", it's... different.

ZenitYerkes · #5 09-21-2010, 03:09 PM

Communism may work or not, but I feel coercion exerted on the individuals to reach any end is bad -just like for example, you are forced to work for the need of money in this system.

At least, if you are going to have your freedom limited, know it's you who has taken that choice and not the fact of being born somewhere X system is currently working.

Anyhow, justification for the current system in older and failed ones is a rather poor argument for any debate.

"McDonalds may be bad, but BK is worse"
"Noticed there are *real* restaurants somewhere else?"

Same for political systems. Let's not defend the bad attacking the worse, and look for the better instead.

Human No More · #6 09-22-2010, 06:13 PM

Voluntarily is completely different to what is essentially state-sanctioned theft.

caveman · #7 09-23-2010, 02:36 AM

Guys, c'mon, our democracy is awesome! Don't you like freedom?

YouTube - neil young rocking in the free world music video

**Woodsprite** · #8 09-23-2010, 02:41 AM

As much as the U.S. and Europe are going down the tube with all the corruption taking over, everyone still has to admit this system is better than any system ever conceived before. And as many problems as modern democracy has, it still works better than any other system ever conceived before.

ZenitYerkes · #9 09-23-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

As much as the U.S. and Europe are going down the tube with all the corruption taking over, everyone still has to admit this system is better than any system ever conceived before. And as many problems as modern democracy has, it still works better than any other system ever conceived before.

-what excludes any possibility of being creative and coming up with new ones.

Seriously, the problems representative democracy creates won't be solved by representative democracy.

Davy Jones · #10 09-23-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes

Seriously, the problems representative democracy creates won't be solved by representative democracy.

Wut.

Human No More · #11 09-23-2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

As much as the U.S. and Europe are going down the tube with all the corruption taking over, everyone still has to admit this system is better than any system ever conceived before. And as many problems as modern democracy has, it still works better than any other system ever conceived before.

Democracy works, we just need a country to actually implement it. The last one that did was ancient Greece

ZenitYerkes · #12 09-23-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Human No More

Democracy works, we just need a country to actually implement it. The last one that did was ancient Greece

Not actually -it was a restrictive direct democracy. Only citizens inscribed in the "demos" or city-State census could vote: lesser citizens (sons of foreigners) and slaves could not take any decision there.

Still brought Athens to its most brilliant period, and it doesn't seem worse than this system at all.

**Isard** · #13 09-23-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

As much as the U.S. and Europe are going down the tube with all the corruption taking over, everyone still has to admit this system is better than any system ever conceived before. And as many problems as modern democracy has, it still works better than any other system ever conceived before.

Actually, I think Monarchies still hold the spot of "Best system" as they've lasted centuries. We're just clearing 200 some odd years with this "democratic republic" thing. And we seem to be following the Romans down...

**Woodsprite** · #14 09-23-2010, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aihwa

Actually, I think Monarchies still hold the spot of "Best system" as they've lasted centuries. We're just clearing 200 some odd years with this "democratic republic" thing. And we seem to be following the Romans down...

Tell me how the citizens under the monarchies are doing as a whole, and then I'll consider dictatorship as a possible solution to our problems...

And... weren't the Romans doing just fine until Caesar came with his... monarchy? Er... dictatorship?

**Isard** · #15 09-23-2010, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

Tell me how the citizens under the monarchies are doing as a whole, and then I'll consider dictatorship as a possible solution to our problems...

And... weren't the Romans doing just fine until Caesar came with his... monarchy? Er... dictatorship?

A dictatorship is personal power granted to yourself. A monarchy is power granted by a deity to a ruler.

And as a whole, Monarchies have lasted far longer than the few democratic republics. Rome fell when its policies allowed somebody to seize power into a dictatorship.