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#1
09-23-2010, 11:25 AM
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If, in a neighbour hood, a broken window on a house goes unrepaired, people start to think that it is a rough neighbourhood so they care less about what they do to it. People start to drop litter, graffiti appears on the walls, eventually, cars start being burned in the streets and more windows are smashed. That is exactly what I see happening in our society. We don't have enough figureheads of truth to show us that the world is still saveable (for whatever reason that may be, I largely suspect the media), that there's still good in it, so everone thinks that there's no reason to care. The window is broken, and no one's fixing it. And even if you DO care, it all seems hopeless because so few others do. But of course, like you said, the only way is to carry on and actually try to do something about it. Because, if maybe even a few thousand people "try to do something about it" then maybe, just maybe, those few thousand may turn into a few hundred thousand, millions... Quote:
The thing about Gandhi's struggle was it was against a real, tangible 'enemy'. He had something real, something physical to unite the people against. The issue surrounding today is we do not hae such an enemy. There are no single empires, no real physical threat to our wellbeing to fight against. At least, that's what many think. I disagree, I think that things like the way we're destroying the planet is a very strong cause for us, as human beings - not as certain races, religions, peoples but as a single species that all live on planet Earth - to unite against. However, many people feel they are not suffereing by their own definitions, in fact, they're quite comfortable with their plight. They can eat when they want, they can watch their expensive TV in their warm, comfortable houses and just let the world pass them by, because there's no NEED to do anything about it in their eyes. Why would you sabotage something that's so easy? So, esentially, the question is how to get people to unite against something as a whole that, to most, seems unreal, false and an uncomfortable reality check? Quote:
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[Alright, i'm done... For now...  )
__________________
"When the time comes, just walk away and don't make any fuss." Last edited by Fkeu'itan; 09-23-2010 at 11:46 AM. 
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#2
09-23-2010, 06:14 PM
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But I highly disagree about the common tangible enemy phrase. There were countless revolutionaries in India at the time that said "lets all go and kill the imperialists". In such a conflict, the ratio of british to natives in india was like 1 to a thousand. Indeed they could have all been killed. Gandhi did not unite the people of India against another group of people, he united them against an idea. He said "no" to how other revolutionaries painted the British and instead preached that their goal was not to wage war but to seek friendship. He saw his movement wat not a war against another people but against something that is an intangible enemy -- imperialism. The British in his mind needed to be saved from themselves. Gandhi went so far as to love his enemy but hate their sin. Last edited by Banefull; 09-23-2010 at 06:17 PM.
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#3
09-23-2010, 06:36 PM
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Anyway, basically, what i'm asking is, what do we have in our modern time that has the force and dire need to unite our people against? Is there anything that preys on the minds of all people and effects their lives so much that they would stand up and say "no", be it peacefully or violently? I think I can see the answer, but the problem is, people are comfortable in a system that, in all reality and in the bigger picture, does neither them, nor the world around them any real good. The people of India all had something common to believe in and to resist. We, do not.
__________________
"When the time comes, just walk away and don't make any fuss."
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#4
09-20-2010, 04:49 PM
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This interesting debate has moved from meaning to achieveing change it seems.
*I will be able to tell who read and did not read through the following post* In the year 1857 A.D. Britain established complete dominance over India after the decline of the Mughal empire. Never in history had so few ruled over so many. India was reduced to a state where it could not even manufacture a safety pin. The people of India suffered greatly and yearned for change but did not know how to achieve it. Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi was born on 2 October 1869. He lived a relatively sheltered life in a well-off amily. His change of heart occurred when he traveled to South Africa to study in law school. While riding a train, the conductor ordered him to move to the 3rd class area because he was Indian (Gandhi had a 1st class ticket). When he refused he was thrown off the train. He witnessed firsthand the injustice that happened in South Africa at the time and began to consider his own native India. Gandhi tried to organize the Indians living in South Africa to oppose laws discriminating against them but he ultimately failed miserably. Whenever he succeeded in passing a few laws but they were never enforced (or even circumvented through loopholes). Later on Ghandi would become an active leader in the movement for independence from Britain through non-violence and his active leadership in the face of danger.  So why am I only focusing on the early part of Gandhi's life in South Africa and not the more well known glorious independence of India? Because it teaches us about how to bring about change. Gandhi thought that by simply changing the law, he could change the way people acted. He laboured hard for several years just to pass a few laws but never succeeded in bringing about true change. Everyone here keeps saying that we all just have to go out and do something, but just doing things does not bring about change. If we want to truly change the world we have to teach. We don't have to be a Gandhi or Jake Sully who had great feats. We can teach our children, our friends, our colleagues about the issues of the day through example, discussion, or even plain truth. By teaching others, it is our hope that they in turn will teach others also. If in our lives, we touch the life of at least one other person, then our life is not a waste. If that one person, because of our impact on him, goes and impacts the lives of 2 or 3 other persons around him and each of those 2 or 3 go out and impact the lives of another 2 or 3, sooner or later we will find the change we are looking for. I always believed that to some varying degree for everyone, our meaning in life is to teach others. When we teach others we truly are the light of the world. Go and teach your children. They are not born with the stereotypes, predjudices, and biases of today -- they learn them from us. We can impart on them a sense of how things should be and they will keep that with them for the rest of their lives. Go and teach your friends. Your friends are extensions of yourself. They embody certain aspects of yourself and you embody certain aspects of them. Have the courage to discuss deep issues and do the right things in front of them. Go and teach your neighbors. Invite them to come and sit with you and talk. Show them what you have to say. Confucious saw the corruption of the government around him and developed a set morals and codes but was frustrated in his attempts to get lords and officials to apply them, but his teachings lived on the very small handful of students he taught. Dorothy Stang died an inglorious death but her message about the rainforest and its inhabitants took center stage and served as the inspiration for future advocates of indigenous peoples. Gandhi said no to the revolutionaries who wanted to rebell and instead carved his own way of nonviolence. That way, the Satyagraha, would serve to inspire another man who saw injustice, Martin Luther King Jr. All that humans have taught to each other has had more impact than all the armies of the world who ever marched, all the navies that have ever sailed, and all the wars that have been fought. My advice to everyone is to find something to love and then go out and teach someone about it. Last edited by Banefull; 09-20-2010 at 05:22 PM.
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#5
09-22-2010, 07:51 AM
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If you want something done, do it.
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#6
09-22-2010, 08:03 AM
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#7
09-20-2010, 05:53 PM
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I think that's the answer... Maybe it's not possible to change the existing people, but we can work to bring a message to the next generation. That is one thing I can do at least...
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#8
09-20-2010, 06:19 PM
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Not just our children but those who we know.
To say that someone cannot change is to give up hope in them. Mankind always has the potential to rise above his present condition. Last edited by Banefull; 09-20-2010 at 08:29 PM.
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#9
09-20-2010, 06:36 PM
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Best thing to do is to make all we *can*. Not only bringing messages, not only teaching -getting active ourselves as well.
Those to whom we preach our evangel will face the same barriers we do.
__________________
I love Plato, but I love Truth more - Aristotle
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#10
09-20-2010, 08:15 PM
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The point here I am trying to make is this. Yes we do have an impact by doing but we achieve a lot more by teaching. If you donate 5 dollars to charity then you have touched the life of a single person. If you go out and educate others about the need to donate to charity because of a natural disaster then you have touched the lives of hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands. Last edited by Banefull; 09-20-2010 at 08:28 PM.
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#11
09-20-2010, 08:30 PM
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No, that is doing something about it without expecting your followers doing the work for you.
Teach but don't limit yourself to just telling the people what they should do.
__________________
I love Plato, but I love Truth more - Aristotle
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#12
09-20-2010, 08:37 PM
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Indeed we have to carve our own path, but I never said that we do not have to act. We should be the change but if we want to truly bring about a general change in society than we have to start by educating others and spreading ideas. It starts with small things such as our daily discussions with others.
If you truly believe in what you teach, then the acts should come naturally. If you find purpose in teaching something, then you truly believe in it. Now I am referring to teaching in a pure sense and not in a twisted sense where someone teaches an idea to further their own desires or wants (like a dictator who preaches nationalism to achieve power). There is a difference. Last edited by Banefull; 09-20-2010 at 08:58 PM.
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#13
09-22-2010, 03:26 AM
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I would say that the good in this world outnumbers the bad also. I don't think anyone in this thread has specifically stated that but some probably feel that way. (If people start arguing about this then I'll post a 3rd giant wall of text in this thread.)
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#14
09-22-2010, 05:30 AM
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Wow what a thread that I missed out on.
Good and bad is part of the human condition. Call it the perversity of the universe. It's just how it is. I take the bad with the good. It's part of the deal we got when we were born. I do what I can to shine light into there is darkness. It's kind of my mission. You have got to do what you can to show others the path.
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#15
09-22-2010, 07:12 AM
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First off, what is evil?
A quick look at webster dictionary says that evil is: 1 : --a : morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked <an evil impulse> --b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a person of evil reputation> 2 : --a archaic : inferior --b : causing discomfort or repulsion : offensive <an evil odor> --c : disagreeable <woke late and in an evil temper> 3 : --a : causing harm : pernicious <the evil institution of slavery> --b : marked by misfortune : unlucky When most of us talk of evil, we refer to that which is inherently sinful or wicked. So then the question becomes, what is inherently sinful or wicked? Can a certain action be inherently sinful or wicked? If you steal, is that evil? If you steal to feed your starving children, is that evil? What makes some acts seem better than others? As you have most likely guessed by now, it is our intent or purpose behind the action. There are no evil or wicked people in this world, only those who subscribe themselves to misguided purposes. People are not born with the intent of harming others or themselves. No child ever says "I want to become a drug dealer when I grow up." They come to believe in a misguided purpose as they grow up. Why does someone become a dealer of drugs? To make money. They mistakenly come to reason that their purpose in life to accumulate wealth and will go through any means necessary to achieve that goal. (Yes I am calling the accumulation of wealth a misguided purpose.) Back to the orginal question of whether there is more good or evil. For all of the bad things we hear on the news, there are untold acts of kindness each with good intent that never make headlines. Everyday we look out for our friends and neighbors because we value (love) their well-being. We are here discussing in this thread because we value (love) seeing the proper inner development of everyone else. For all that is evil there is much more good. Last edited by Banefull; 09-22-2010 at 07:36 AM.
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Hybrid Mode
