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[caveman]

Originally Posted by Human No More

A forum will break even with donations of people who like to support it, but based on the time and effort it takes, running one should be out of passion for the community and it's subject, not out of financial interest.

A place like ToS should be run out of passion, I agree. But web-building and monitoring is a market of its own, especially for things that come in waves - new cd's, movies, books etc. My guess is the original plan was something like:

Make a website for the next big movie

Moderate it for a couple months, or until the excitement dies down.

Sell the site, or close it, considering very few people will be on a movie forum months after its release.

Of course, that's not what happened. Nobody could have predicted a community would develop and stay around for so long. The point is, AF was made for profit, because at the time of its creation, there was no passion. But as said before, AF was a different breed of forums.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by Human No More

I certainly have no sympathy for them... But I genuinely don't know the actual situation - what their intention was.
Either way, buying a forum in order to make a profit is an exercise in futility and that should be obvious. A forum will break even with donations of people who like to support it, but based on the time and effort it takes, running one should be out of passion for the community and it's subject, not out of financial interest.

Uhhh... Thats what he DOES for a living. Current tense. AF's bills are paid with the profits from other websites he manages. Its quite easy to do, but apparently there's not enough ad traffic. He even asks for people to click random ads now and then, its the same as donating.

[Helicoradian]

I don't go to AF any longer, but it's kinda sad to see what it's become At least we have ToS.

[Fkeu'itan]

Yeah, it's been months since i've signed in there too. (I actually just decided to, just for some arbitrary reason.)

I think there are still a whole load of good people over there 'waiting to be discovered'. ( so to speak). I don't dislike the community or the people over there, I just can't contest the image of the site and it's layout in my mind. It's just too disheartening, remembering what it was like for those first amazing, brilliant months and seeing what it's become now.

Still, ToS is here now, and that feeling still largely remains preserved here as far as i'm concerned.

[Woodsprite]

^Actually, as much as that feeling is here, the only way I'd ever have the *perfect* feeling of the former AF is if the header were the old, heartwarming side of Neytiri's face.

I'll never forget it. Those first months... were pretty much like you just described, Fkeu'itan. Those first few months when I was completely taken by Avatar to the point that holidays like Christmas were somehow bland if Avatar wasn't involved.

[X.,.Pandora.,.X]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

^Actually, as much as that feeling is here, the only way I'd ever have the *perfect* feeling of the former AF is if the header were the old, heartwarming side of Neytiri's face.

I'll never forget it. Those first months... were pretty much like you just described, Fkeu'itan. Those first few months when I was completely taken by Avatar to the point that holidays like Christmas were somehow bland if Avatar wasn't involved.

^This, I would give alot if we could all go back to January-March. I'm now depressed thinking about it

[Fkeu'itan]

*Sigh* Yeah, exactly... Those first heady weeks and months were truly something to be remembered.

Hopefully though, they will help blossom into something altogether more memorable and amazing.

[Dreaming Of Pandora]

Caveman, I agree with pretty much everything you said. If Lon really is inconsiderate and greedy, he'd have shut down AF by now.

Regarding your question on why this thread is even here, no one here apart from the admins represents ToS' opinion of AF. If I were to make an anti-AF, it'd be my opinion, not the forum's. So when you say were not being very good partners because some people expressed negative opinions of Lon/AF, we're not representing the whole forum's views, just.our own individual opinions.

[Banefull]

A-F got a new look. A much more bluer look.

It still doesn't have anything on ToS.

ToS look > A-F look

[xcrunner08]

Agreed with Aihwa. Lon's doing what he needs to do to keep the site up. He just actually tells people th truth rather then decide to close it or sell it one day randomly. When he does something, he makes sure everyone knows be it good or bad news. Certainly better then finding an admin change when you wake up one morning. I don't check AF much anymore nor here just because, to be honest, I kind of got over Avatar.

ToS is still growing and active because its a site for more die hard fans. AF is a larger and more casual site. Traffic has most likely died down because the general populace isnt as in love with the movie. Every hype has an end. Kudos to Lon for doing his best to keep that site up. As Aihwa said he is just a guy trying to make a living and he does have to put that above the needs of people who use the site as a hobby. He does own it and he's the only one who has a concrete benefit/harm from the site's success/fail.

And, not to sound offensive, but some of those bans were called for at the time as they violated the rules. Just mentioning.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by xcrunner08

And, not to sound offensive, but some of those bans were called for at the time as they violated the rules. Just mentioning.

Well, not the one on Tudhalyas.

[X.,.Pandora.,.X]

In a way...ToS will eventually lead to AF's downfall.

[caveman]

Originally Posted by X.,.Pandora.,.X

In a way...ToS will eventually lead to AF's downfall.

It already has.

AF is a struggling site. Yet there are really great people on there. On a couple occasions, dedicated ToS members returned for a visit and were overwhelmed by the welcoming greetings of very nice people. And yet some people testify against it, but haven't logged on in months. Haven't tried meeting members there, but still find valid reasoning for comparing the two sites.

And this is why I don't like this thread, or the context it was created. It could have easily been "Hey, AF just got an update, and if you haven't been on in a while, now might be a good opportunity to visit, meet some people, and bring the communities closer..." Instead it was "Hey, AF just got an update, but the administrator still sucks, and the forum is down the tubes." People could still have their opinions, but the first is far more likely to promote Avatarforums and effective discussions. That's what partner sites should be doing: promoting each other. Not setting up battlegrounds.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by caveman

On a couple occasions, dedicated ToS members returned for a visit and were overwhelmed by the welcoming greetings of very nice people. And yet some people testify against it, but haven't logged on in months. Haven't tried meeting members there, but still find valid reasoning for comparing the two sites.

Oh, I only compare ToS with AF concerning its administration and the site layout, not on the conduct of its members. For all I know, many of the members of AF are just as kind and thoughtful as we are.

Originally Posted by caveman

And this is why I don't like this thread, or the context it was created. It could have easily been "Hey, AF just got an update, and if you haven't been on in a while, now might be a good opportunity to visit, meet some people, and bring the communities closer..." Instead it was "Hey, AF just got an update, but the administrator still sucks, and the forum is down the tubes."

I never said anything like "the administrator still sucks" or anything to that effect in the first post. Other members did that themselves without me having to say anything for four replies.

[X.,.Pandora.,.X]

Originally Posted by caveman

That's what partner sites should be doing: promoting each other. Not setting up battlegrounds.

^ This is a complete win