The Death Penalty

[Woodsprite]

...Unless you're talking about a criminally insane convict that doesn't care about death, but rather publicity that goes with it.

No sane convict cares about attention when he's going to die; he cares about his life. And wouldn't keeping a prisoner alive for 25+ years just cost a ton more money than just killing him? That, coupled with the fact that it's possible for him to appeal after at least 2 years (for a serious crime) and has the chance to be released, only to risk harming the society again by committing another crime... perhaps the same kind he was imprisoned for in the first place.

It's mostly about prevention from further crimes of the same caliber, not "inciting fear in other criminals". You release a child molestor for instance. Then he goes out and does the same thing again. Or a murderer repeating his crime. This is pretty-much why the death penalty exists, folks.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

...Unless you're talking about a criminally insane convict that doesn't care about death, but rather publicity that goes with it.

No sane convict cares about attention when he's going to die; he cares about his life. And wouldn't keeping a prisoner alive for 25+ years just cost a ton more money than just killing him? That, coupled with the fact that it's possible for him to appeal after at least 2 years (for a serious crime) and has the chance to be released, only to risk harming the society again by committing another crime... perhaps the same kind he was imprisoned for in the first place.

It's mostly about prevention from further crimes of the same caliber, not "inciting fear in other criminals". You release a child molestor for instance. Then he goes out and does the same thing again. Or a murderer repeating his crime. This is pretty-much why the death penalty exists, folks.

To execute or not: A question of cost? - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com


Do you realise how much money it costs for us to kill somebody? Millions of dollars, appeal after appeal after appeal, with taxpayers dollars the whole way. This is a simple way for states to balance budgets. But of course, peoples bloodlust wont get satisfied this way...

Also, Life without parole means just that, life without parole. Done deal, he'd have to be acquitted of the crime he was convicted of in the first place to win his appeal. Which probably means he was innocent in the first place if that happens, which is of course why appeals exist, because mistakes do happen.


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

It costs more than 37 million dollars to execute somebody in maryland.

[Neytiri.]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

To execute or not: A question of cost? - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com


Do you realise how much money it costs for us to kill somebody? Millions of dollars, appeal after appeal after appeal, with taxpayers dollars the whole way. This is a simple way for states to balance budgets. But of course, peoples bloodlust wont get satisfied this way...

Also, Life without parole means just that, life without parole. Done deal, he'd have to be acquitted of the crime he was convicted of in the first place to win his appeal. Which probably means he was innocent in the first place if that happens, which is of course why appeals exist, because mistakes do happen.


Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center

It costs more than 37 million dollars to execute somebody in maryland.

I believe in the death penalty, and i believe it should be swift. The day after the judgment is passed.

Just thinking about it this way, if someone killed your child, you wouldn't want them put to death? I would find it hard not killing them myself.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by Neytiri.

I believe in the death penalty, and i believe it should be swift. The day after the judgment is passed.

Just thinking about it this way, if someone killed your child, you wouldn't want them put to death? I would find it hard not killing them myself.

Day three, they realize it was the wrong person.


GG, you just killed an innocent. Mistakes happen. A life imprisonment can be reversed if a mistake happens, death, cannot.

[Neytiri.]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

Day three, they realize it was the wrong person.


GG, you just killed an innocent. Mistakes happen. A life imprisonment can be reversed if a mistake happens, death, cannot.

Life Imprisonment can be worse than death.

[Marvellous Chester]

I am not sure about the death penalty. I believe in an eye for an eye, if you murder somebody (excusing self-defence of course) then you should be killed in the exact same way I think. We know the criminal is gone for ever and so cannot ever re-offend or escape prison. Not only this but it would reduce the amount of prisons needed which would save money and we could have some nice forests in their place Prison is not nearly terrible enough (in Britain anyway) some prisons evidently have decent meals and Playstation 2s! What is going on there!

On the other hand, if somebody is wrongly convicted the punishment cannot be turned back. You can release somebody from prison but cannot bring them back from the dead.

If nobody was ever wrongly convicted then I would say hell yeah, go death penalty but until then perhaps prisons could just be a bit more unpleasant.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

To execute or not: A question of cost? - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com


Do you realise how much money it costs for us to kill somebody? Millions of dollars, appeal after appeal after appeal, with taxpayers dollars the whole way. This is a simple way for states to balance budgets. But of course, peoples bloodlust wont get satisfied this way...

So, my take is, you oppose the death penalty... because it costs a lot of money?

What if it didn't? Would you oppose it then? I gladly pay taxes for such costs precisely because it gets the job done on these people. It's far better than paying taxes to support all the illegals getting benefits in the country, which costs billions more.

Originally Posted by Aihwa

Also, Life without parole means just that, life without parole. Done deal, he'd have to be acquitted of the crime he was convicted of in the first place to win his appeal. Which probably means he was innocent in the first place if that happens, which is of course why appeals exist, because mistakes do happen.

Not as often as not.

Fact remains that whenever a life sentence is sought with no attempt to bother with the death penalty, the defendant usually never serves life without parole. 28% of all lifers in prison as of now actually have such a sentence imposed upon them; it's not common. For instance, don't expect a habitual rapist or child molester to serve such a term.

Besides, I'd rather execute those murderers and rapists who deserve such punishment, instead of sending them to prison where they can eat first class meals, watch HD television, surf the web, and play video games.

...For free.

Originally Posted by Aihwa

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

It costs more than 37 million dollars to execute somebody in maryland.

Of course, failing to mention the fact of how only 5 of the 162 capital cases actually had the death penalty carried out. Not including the 5, 101 of the other capital cases tried to carry out the death penalty, but gave up. Over 50 cases never attempted to carry out capital punishment.

Also failing to mention how the study was a hypothetical estimation, which concluded that $186 million would be spent if all 162 capital cases tried to carry out the death penalty... which isn't what happened. The cost of executing someone in Maryland is around $3 million, not $37 million. Try reading the entire article next time.

[Advent]

Here are my views on the subject:

Of course, in the moment of an attack, a victim has the right to defend themselves by whatever means they can. But I think, even for a person convicted for murder, no one has the right to take the life of another person. Exceptions could only be made in absolutely necessary situations, such as someone threating a nation's security.

This obviously also applies to the murderer, but 50+ years in jail seems worse than a quick death to me. Would you rather die quickly, or be in solitary for the rest of your life?
I also think that execution would be a waste. A suitable alternative would be forcing the convicted person/s into the labour force, in whatever industry is needed. It'd save (possibly make more) money then execution, and we'd find a use for these people, instead of wasting space with their bodies.

Another way of punishing criminals would be to suit their prison treatment to their crime, possibly making a class system for the jail. For example: Minor offenders would have ordinary cells, ordinary treatment. Major offenders, such as people convicted of assault or rape, would have less rations and be used in labour. Very serious offenders, such as serial killers or terrorists, would be in solitary cells, and only be given one meal a day.

It's so simple even a politician could do it. That is, if they actually listened to us instead of imposing higher taxes and promising useless changes to our nation's society.

I understand that it would cost money to make these changes, but I believe it could contribute to a better justice system.
Edit: That's the longest response I've ever written.

[Woodsprite]

Well, seems like you got it all figured out.

Still saying, though... even if all people with life sentences had life without parole (which isn't the case most of the time... in the U.S., anyway), there's the problem of how people in prison usually have more fun in prison than they do out in the real world. Quoting myself,

"I'd rather execute those murderers and rapists who deserve such punishment, instead of sending them to prison where they can eat first class meals, watch HD television, surf the web, and play video games.

...For free."

But your method works pretty well by itself. ...If only it were that simple, though. As of the current overall system, though, capital punishment is really the better way to ensure that the convicted never commit the crime again. Sure, it doesn't help with stopping crime, but it does help with stopping crime by that person. And by the word "crime", I mean "crime worthy of death".

EDIT: And congratulations on your first "lengthy" post.

...This is the longest one you've written? Really?

[Isard]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

Well, seems like you got it all figured out.

Still saying, though... even if all people with life sentences had life without parole (which isn't the case most of the time... in the U.S., anyway), there's the problem of how people in prison usually have more fun in prison than they do out in the real world. Quoting myself,



But your method works pretty well by itself. ...If only it were that simple, though. As of the current overall system, though, capital punishment is really the better way to ensure that the convicted never commit the crime again. Sure, it doesn't help with stopping crime, but it does help with stopping crime by that person. And by the word "crime", I mean "crime worthy of death".

EDIT: And congratulations on your first "lengthy" post.

...This is the longest one you've written? Really?

Nice ad homnim! It add such strength to your argument.


So, what happened to all the "fiscal responsibility" and other arguments against government spending? I suppose spending's fine when its your programs.

Maybe I should go start a thread about healthcare so I can hear you bitch about government overspending, keep these threads side by side. I'd get such a warm feeling inside.



@neytiri. but its still reversible. And less expensive. This is double win.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

So, what happened to all the "fiscal responsibility" and other arguments against government spending? I suppose spending's fine when its your programs.

...I responded to all your arguments back on page 1. Why are you asking again?

[Isard]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

...I responded to all your arguments back on page 1. Why are you asking again?

Yeah, so you support the extra spending. Spend spend spend...

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

Yeah, so you support the extra spending. Spend spend spend...

Because billions more for the illegals matters a lot more.


...But you never answered my two original questions:

1) Do you essentially oppose the death penalty because of the money involved?

If this is the reason,

2) Would you support capital punishment if the cost wasn't so large?

[ZenitYerkes]

I believe any legal or illegal way of taking lives is wrong.

After all, who are you to decide on that?

PS: Woods, if you're against prison commodities, don't pay for them. Or demonstrate to take them away. Democracy works like this, right?

Also... It's too easy to just say "there are problems -and problematic people. Let's kill 'em/jail 'em so they don't cause much trouble.". Has anyone thought on the reasons why these people do what they do?

Most killers and thieves are sane people whose situation force them to work on such jobs.

[stdout]

I think re-offenders should frequently get the death penalty...

Pragmatically though, it's probably too expensive.