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#1
11-08-2010, 07:21 PM
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I don't see any 'mind/body connection' (particularly since one is a function of the other) being a part of it... Different places have different policies. Some decided it is appropriate to protect them, others are more allowing.
Sempu, even if 98,000 people per year die by mistake (source?), how many people WOULD have died without medical assistance? Millions at the very least, and the vast majority of the population over their lifetimes. Fkeu'itan, you're right, but there's a difference between maintaining a healthy immune system and intentionally taking risks. I grew up similarly and I've only ever been properly unwell once, but then again, there was still a degree of being reasonable and not just allowing everything.
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#2
11-09-2010, 03:46 AM
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Thank god our midwife was in charge, because the hospital has a 30% C-section rate for women under a doctor's care. No drugs, no surgery for us, the baby came out on her own time and was just fine, and so was mom. So I see you, Mika.
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#3
11-09-2010, 01:13 AM
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I think for me it boils down completely to a woman's feminist perspective. First of all the Medical Establishment is predominated by MALES, was created by MALES, and is based on a Model that sees the MALE body as the description of what is normal and healthy, and blatantly views FEMALES, as inherently diseased right from the start because they are not Male! This is a proven fact, known, not a subjective analysis! Fortunately that is changing significantly over the next space of years, because the increase of Woman studying to be Doctors is increasing dramatically to almost 50%! Any it is being shown that as Woman enter the Medical Field as Doctors they are challenging that stereotypical view that has been so dominate for so long!
250 million years of human history, where the birthing and care of babies was done and held sacred by Woman, Midwifes, etc versus what 150 years by Males ... um I think the old system managed quite well under the circumstance! Yes there are a lot of improvements, but the reality is that there is a lot of complications, such as the life long effects of traumatic birthing experiences (meaning forceps, intervention, rushing, drips, epidermal s, episeotomys. DRUGS, and a million other medical practices that leave effects on both mother and baby that deteriorate their overall health for life! OH and we will not even begin to go into how C-Sections are becoming routine instead of for high risk only .. No I will forgo giving my whole tantrum on that subject! What feminists ask is for a balance between traditional and modern, and we are a long way from that! Obviously a sensitive issue with me .. but then I had to fight to try not to have all those things done to me and have as natural birth experiences as I could, when I did give birth to my three children! A woman is not considered when she is giving birth, the only thing that matters is what suits or makes it easy for doctors and medical staff, not what makes its the best experience for mom and baby! And the other reason that this is sensitive, is because Aboriginal or Native Teachings and Life uphold the Family, including Extended family as intricate and needed for support, which in this case my sister-in-law is of The People!  On the other side ... I did actually get snuck in to see her today, and she is absolutely adorable! Yes I have just a bit of a rebellious streak to me! 
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It was impossible not to have, It's impossible not to be, It's impossible not to still ...!  What this world really needs is more artists and environmentalists! "Its only 'here' that we lose perspective, out at the Cosmic Consciousness Level things get a lot clearer. For example, there is an actual star pattern that is traced in the shape of a Willow Tree, across the breadth of the Milky Way! And no wonder Indigenous peoples refer to the 'here after' as the Happy Hunting Grounds! Has it ever occured to anyone why the bioluminescence dots, on the Na'vi!" Last edited by Mika; 11-09-2010 at 01:40 AM.
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#4
11-09-2010, 03:33 AM
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There are whole fields of medicine EXCLUSIVELY dedicated to women, which in my opinion there should be due to the fact that the requirement for them is unique, with not as many for men (also equally necessary though). Nobody ever said that women can't or shouldn't be doctors or that they aren't as good. It is important to have both, as in just about every profession. Quote:
Neither is it male dominated, if anything the opposite within pregnancy, as the majority are female, with the possible exception of doctors (where, as you are saying, there are becoming more women). Men have a right to be part of things too. They provide the DNA that creates the baby in the first place. They have as much right to help bring lives into the world. They have a right to want to help people and not to be denied or discriminated against, just as women do. Quote:
Do you REALLY, genuinely think that a trained doctor would go against a hospital's policy (which DOES vary depending on where) simply because she's female? While I may not agree with the policy in the first place in your case, you can't make a statement like that because you're generalising the entire population by doing so. 'Feminism' is just disguised sexism. Equality is about being equal, not giving ANYBODY special rights. Quote:
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- it's something which I find important because so many people I care about owe their lives. We all have someone like that. Think about that for a while.Quote:
 Hope she's well and that she can go home soon Sorry if my tone here sounds a bit strong, but this is something which I care about and I don't see why ANYONE should be able to dictate on it. I really am sorry to hear about this experience, but please don't let it give you a negative opinion of everyone based on it
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#5
11-09-2010, 03:39 AM
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As to them not wanting anyone but parents around the child, i agree with you 100% that doctors are a tad too precautionary about who they let in. I just felt that a few of the things you said were a tad generalized, at least pertaining to the whole "women are diseased" thing. EDIT: What HNM said, I toned it down a lot because I didn't want to seem like I was looking to start a debate, which is what this looks like it's about to turn into. Last edited by Devourment; 11-09-2010 at 03:41 AM.
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#7
11-09-2010, 03:54 AM
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Then it's an issue with how they are encouraged to work and not an inherent problem. In many cases it's because there aren't enough doctors so they are overworked as a result.
Yes, C-sections are overperformed, but in some cases they ARE actually necessary. Overuse of them is an issue in terms of lack of training and knowledge and not in any way indicative of any kind of bias or attitude. Sometimes, particularly in the case of people with physical conditions or multiple pregnancies, letting things go naturally could result in death for the mother and/or the baby. would that be more acceptable because it's not interfering? because I disagree. There is no reason for interfering in many cases, I agree, but denying that assistance is needed for some is equally mistaken. The only sexism is in saying that men are incapable of treating people equally simply because they can't physically experience it.
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#8
11-09-2010, 04:21 AM
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#9
11-09-2010, 02:31 PM
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Because I have to get to work, I just wanted to quickly respond for now and will fill out my thoughts more later!
HNM and the others, in regards to my feminist perspectives, they were not so much about Woman not being able to practice in the medical field, and in truth, the UK may actually be ahead in many ways of North America, I know that it is so in the Holistic Field, as UK leads in that area, so no doubt that has carried over to other aspects of Health as well. The other reality is that its not that what I am sighting is my 'old' school views, rather it is based on 30yrs of life experience and studying on these issues, not just my own perspective. Yes I agree I could provide more concrete evidence, but I will not that it is interesting that you 'require' that to accept my view point, another predominately 'stereotypical' perspective, that unless one can speak from 'facts and figures' that their views can simply be discounted or negated, because they speak from the heart and life experience. I noted that it is a sensitive topic for me .. exactly to lighten and make others aware that if I seemed a bit over the top, well maybe it was because it is so close to my heart and therefore acknowledging I was speaking strongly in the post because of that. In other words the same that I encourage on ToS for all, but now for me in this moment, that I am allowed to feel 'passionately' about things sometimes, and as for some patience and understanding when I or others do so! I for one do not question nor am I not grateful for the advances that we have in Medicine. My daughter and granddaughter five years ago, like others were ones that were 'saved' literally by the Medical System, including having to have a C-SEction or else they both would have died! On the other side though the type of circumstance that was this Birthing Emergency, is considered to be the ONE a year, out of thousands of babies, that are born in that hospital, that require that level of intervention! THATS as told to us by the Medical Professionals at the hospital! So I am speaking still from a place of life experience on both sides of the equation!
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It was impossible not to have, It's impossible not to be, It's impossible not to still ...! What this world really needs is more artists and environmentalists! "Its only 'here' that we lose perspective, out at the Cosmic Consciousness Level things get a lot clearer. For example, there is an actual star pattern that is traced in the shape of a Willow Tree, across the breadth of the Milky Way! And no wonder Indigenous peoples refer to the 'here after' as the Happy Hunting Grounds! Has it ever occured to anyone why the bioluminescence dots, on the Na'vi!"
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#10
11-09-2010, 04:20 AM
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First that articles from '99, that's more than a decade ago, secondly, if my mother had utilized a midwife rather than a doctor, I would not currently be alive. If I ever reach that point in my life, I would rather entrust the life of my child to somebody who spent more than a decade of their life learning how these things work.
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#11
11-09-2010, 02:48 PM
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#12
11-09-2010, 03:03 PM
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Yet they still can't do everything. I likely would have died if I wasn't born with doctors present too.
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#13
11-09-2010, 04:08 PM
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#14
11-10-2010, 12:18 AM
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Great if no problems were expected (in many cases, such as when I was born, they CAN tell if problems are likely), in which case fine, although I would still say it is better to have doctors nearby in case they are needed if there are complications, but that study looks like a case of confirmation bias to me as I doubt it included an average of all birth types in both, simply because ones that are more likely to be difficult are performed in a location where assistance can be given if necessary.
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#15
11-10-2010, 01:47 AM
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The Medical System is backed by the biggest, largest, most profit making MULTI-QUADRILLION DOLLAR making Companies of the World, the Pharmaceutical companies - (ie: translation Medical RDA), whom has/does/will continue to fight to protect their interests at all costs, because they are the largest in the world~! Consciousness - 'waking up' and 'seeing' just how far Pharmaceutical Companies will go to any lengths to ensure to protect their interests (does this sound familiar?) is one of the things that for the sake of ones health and the world's we need to do! Why - because another one of those 'statistical facts' that I'm not going to provide collaborative info, as it can be found on the net, is just how 'toxic' the world and the waters have become with the 'drugs' that they produce, we ingest, we defecate out, and all the unused that is flushed or dumped into our environment. Those 'stats' indicate the increase in birth defects, impotence (males), early puberty, menses, and abnormal breast development (females), and cancers at the minimum are the resultant increasing rising tsunami that we are seeing from the Pharmaceuticals. It would be unhealthy to not question their 'studies' with a critical eye~ (PS) I'm not asking you to believe my viewpoint, I'm suggesting that one should research for themselves the available information and arguments on the internet, etc. and start questioning it for themselves. Also to note that many of the changes including the increase in Holistic/Alternative Health, the surrgance of awareness that has made differences, for example that science is now realizing and admitting that over use of antibiotics is detrimental to our health, to the point where the Medical Systems are now advocating for less use of antibiotics ... after years and years of those of us on the fringe having been putting forth that concern and ignored, but in the end .. oh look those outspoken 'fringes' were right all along!)
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It was impossible not to have, It's impossible not to be, It's impossible not to still ...! What this world really needs is more artists and environmentalists! "Its only 'here' that we lose perspective, out at the Cosmic Consciousness Level things get a lot clearer. For example, there is an actual star pattern that is traced in the shape of a Willow Tree, across the breadth of the Milky Way! And no wonder Indigenous peoples refer to the 'here after' as the Happy Hunting Grounds! Has it ever occured to anyone why the bioluminescence dots, on the Na'vi!" Last edited by Mika; 11-10-2010 at 02:05 AM.
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Hybrid Mode
