Should religion, culture, ethnic group,... be taken in count?

[Banefull]

Originally Posted by The Illusive Man

Oh Banefull I really hope you turn out to be right, but I beg to differ. The New Zealand media doesn't perpetuate this view of Islam, the views I present are from my own observations, it happens down the end of my street. Fully clothed woman are everywhere and the police are constantly at their houses, from what seems to be domestic violence issues. Islam is exporting its worst aspects to western civilization.

And I know several people at my university who are Islamic and I have had studies in various religions. How much do you people actually know about Islam in the first place?

Don't criticize something you don't know.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Banefull

And I know several people at my university who are Islamic and I have had studies in various religions. How much do you people actually know about Islam in the first place?

Don't criticize something you don't know.

I know enough to state my opinion. I also think we both acknowledge that there are extremes to Islam as there are to any religion. What I'm seeing though is the extreme and perhaps distorted version of Islam being exported from the middle east.

Trust me I do know that Islam is similar to Catholicism in many respects. Although the two religions differ one one important thing above all else. Catholics believe that Jesus was the son of God, where as Muslims believe Muhammad was merely a prophet of Allah.

Originally Posted by Aihwa

And none of it is your business, or concern. If they violate the laws of your country, the police intervene. If they don't, then you shouldn't worry about them.

That's like appeasment. It becomes a problem when they totally reject New Zealand culture, if it was merely a few individuals doing this then it wouldn't be a problem, but it's thousands.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by The Illusive Man

Oh Banefull I really hope you turn out to be right, but I beg to differ. The New Zealand media doesn't perpetuate this view of Islam, the views I present are from my own observations, it happens down the end of my street. Fully clothed woman are everywhere and the police are constantly at their houses, from what seems to be domestic violence issues. Islam is exporting its worst aspects to western civilization.

And none of it is your business, or concern. If they violate the laws of your country, the police intervene. If they don't, then you shouldn't worry about them.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by The Illusive Man

Oh Banefull I really hope you turn out to be right, but I beg to differ. The New Zealand media doesn't perpetuate this view of Islam, the views I present are from my own observations, it happens down the end of my street. Fully clothed woman are everywhere and the police are constantly at their houses, from what seems to be domestic violence issues. Islam is exporting its worst aspects to western civilization.

Sad but true... It happens all the time in some parts of the UK too

Originally Posted by The Illusive Man

It's different, the native legal system is used to dealing with natives, adapted for natives, meant for natives. Look at countries with extremely low immigration and compare the crime rates with countries with high immigration.

Exactly - it's in part because some people immigrated and refused to follow the country's laws. There are some extremist groups in the UK who want special muslim religious courts set up - not only is that a huge step towards the oppression of women and suppression of free speech, but they simply want them as the thin end of the wedge in terms of taking power
If they want that, I say they should go back to a country where they exist, just as long as they don't complain when they get stoned to death as a result.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by The Illusive Man

One thing I find abhorent is how woman are treated in the Islamic faith. I don't want the same disrespect to be perpetuated worldwide, they also reinforce the point of view that all non-muslims should be hated.

This is one thing we can't let happen. The media does overblow and segregate a lot with their reporting but 'never' forget that there are real threats to liberty out there. Threats we need to face head on in order to uphold ethics and morality.

Exactly. When people deliberately isolate themselves from the civilisation they live in, there is only one outcome in the end.

[Banefull]

There is a difference between the radical elements of Islam and Islam itself....

[Isard]

It's descriptive.

Details, when you read news, you want details.

[Advent]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

It's descriptive.

Details, when you read news, you want details.

Exactly.

If someone died, the media tells you exactly who killed them. I don't see much outright rascism in that.

[ZenitYerkes]

Originally Posted by Advent

Exactly.

If someone died, the media tells you exactly who killed them. I don't see much outright rascism in that.

Why the nationality and not his stature or his ID number? Thus you could know who exactly commited the crime.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes

Why the nationality and not his stature or his ID number? Thus you could know who exactly commited the crime.

Headlines are meant to give a physical picture of a news article in order to catch the eye. Physical descriptions help build that fast mental picture. Details on those involved are usually deeper into the article proper, but the headline is the hook to get the readers attention.

[ZenitYerkes]

Not only immigrants have bad habits, neither are natives a group of saints gathered in the same land.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes

Not only immigrants have bad habits, neither are natives a group of saints gathered in the same land.

It's different, the native legal system is used to dealing with natives, adapted for natives, meant for natives. Look at countries with extremely low immigration and compare the crime rates with countries with high immigration.

[ZenitYerkes]

Originally Posted by The Illusive Man

It's different, the native legal system is used to dealing with natives, adapted for natives, meant for natives. Look at countries with extremely low immigration and compare the crime rates with countries with high immigration.

"Killing, stealing and use of violence will be punished" are rules common to all countries and cultures; there are no "natives' laws" and "immigrants' laws" in such basic contexts.

Any case, you can always blame immigrants for anything: when there is work, they are just lazy bums; when there isn't, they take all work. When they don't even speak your language you demand them to do so, when they attempt to adapt you say they are trying to take over.

Immigrants are just people you can deport far from your jurisdiction not to take care of them anymore.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes

"Killing, stealing and use of violence will be punished" are rules common to all countries and cultures; there are no "natives' laws" and "immigrants' laws" in such basic contexts.

Any case, you can always blame immigrants for anything: when there is work, they are just lazy bums; when there isn't, they take all work. When they don't even speak your language you demand them to do so, when they attempt to adapt you say they are trying to take over.

Immigrants are just people you can deport far from your jurisdiction not to take care of them anymore.

Before I say anymore there are 'individual' immigrants that I don't mind having around.

Laws should be adapted, natives are peaceful for the most part, we need different punishments for third world immigrants who export their vile habits to western countries.

You've put forward some valid arguments 'against' immigrants with that mid paragraph. The individuals I mentioned are the ones who adapt enthusiastically.

[ZenitYerkes]

Originally Posted by The Illusive Man

Before I say anymore there are 'individual' immigrants that I don't mind having around.

Laws should be adapted, natives are peaceful for the most part, we need different punishments for third world immigrants who export their vile habits to western countries.

You've put forward some valid arguments 'against' immigrants with that mid paragraph. The individuals I mentioned are the ones who adapt enthusiastically.

Vile habits... What is that? Wearing a scarf? Speaking another language? Eating different food? Believing in a different god? Defending a different cause? Having different traditions?

Those are not crimes.

But how about first world immigrants?

How about British who hit their women? Americans who have drug addiction? French rapists? Spaniards who barely speak English?

Would you apply to them the same punishment other New Zealanders receive, or those which such "special immigrant laws" would dictate?

In fact, when and when not should those laws act? When it's about immigrants whose country is above a certain level of development, people with this tone of skin, with this creed, with this ideology?