Why Cameron Failed.

[ScottWashburn]

At least the RDA cafeteria on Hell's Gate did not seem to be a MacDonalds franchise

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by rapunzel77

You raise a very good point here and I am surprised it isn't discussed more. This is possibly what Cameron could be getting at. Monoculture is probably the most responsible for the extinction of indigenous cultures/languages, etc. It is all the same materialist, globalist culture that you see everywhere. I hate it. I saw it when I lived in Germany. A good example is when I was in HS. We took a field trip to a medieval town called Rothenburg. It still has its walls (granted they were partially destroying in WWII and then rebuilt). Very few cars are allowed inside. There are tons of little shops, mom and pop restaurants featuring traditional German food, etc and in the middle of this cute, quaint town, there is a stupid McDonald's. Where did most of my classmates go to eat for lunch that day?? Did they go to one of the local mom and pop restaurants to get some local flavor? No. They wanted a big mac. Ugh! I think the reason why we don't see a variety of accents and languages with the RDA in Avatar is because as you have pointed out, the monoculture took over almost completely. That is scary. We want to live together in peace and harmony while still maintaining distinctive cultures. Sadly, this "monoculture" has been produced in the U.S. and exported to most parts of the world and continues to be produced. This is why we need to resist it as much as we can.

Actually, I think Cameron just got lazy and very Hollywood - Hollywood is not very good at recognize that other places exist aside from the US, that in the future the US might actually not be a superpower any more. It's purely an American-centric thing, a Western Hemisphere-centric thing.

And ahaha, oh dear, re: your classmates. I do understand the sentiment, though - when I was on a school-trip to Russia, we all just soaked up the local food like anything. it was awesome and lovely (god, SO NICE)...and then, yes, when we saw a McDonalds we descended en masse because we were homesick, and it was familiar and something from home that we could trust. And I say this as someone who loathes and despises McDonalds, and who can only eat it once a year, if that. We - and we're Australian, mind you - just wanted something familiar.

[ISV Venture Star]

Originally Posted by Ashen Key

Actually, I think Cameron just got lazy and very Hollywood - Hollywood is not very good at recognize that other places exist aside from the US, that in the future the US might actually not be a superpower any more. It's purely an American-centric thing, a Western Hemisphere-centric thing.

I think it's more of an aesthetic choice, like the decision not to give the actors distractingly 'futuristic' clothing or invent any outlandish 22nd century colloquialisms. I'm happy with it.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by ISV Venture Star

I think it's more of an aesthetic choice, like the decision not to give the actors distractingly 'futuristic' clothing or invent any outlandish 22nd century colloquialisms. I'm happy with it.

*wry* I dislike that the clothes look modern (they didn't have to have that different, but just a bit would have been nice), and I REALLY dislike the all the American accents.

But then, I guess my patience for being flooded with things American, American, American runs shorter some days than others.

[ISV Venture Star]

I take it you believe 'Aliens' would have been a better film if Luc Besson had chosen the costume designers. It's a point of view, I guess.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by ISV Venture Star

I take it you believe 'Aliens' would have been a better film if Luc Besson had chosen the costume designers. It's a point of view, I guess.

*bemused* Where on EARTH did you get that impression from? I actually love Aliens, even though the 80s hair and the costumes when Ripley is talking to the board entertain me. To be futuristic does not mean outlandish, but fashions change. Just look at the difference from the early 90s to the modern day - still wearing the same things, pretty much, but in different styles and cuts.

I don't think it would have taken much to set down and made the civilian clothes subtly different - still us, still normal and natural, but with couple little things here and there (like necklines, the way of wearing a jacket) that would register as 'not 2006-9'.

[ISV Venture Star]

Originally Posted by Ashen Key

I don't think it would have taken much to set down and made the civilian clothes subtly different - still us, still normal and natural, but with couple little things here and there (like necklines, the way of wearing a jacket) that would register as 'not 2006-9'.

Personally I'm of the opinion that keeping most (perhaps not all) of the costumes unobtrusive is the best strategy. Imagine how awful parts of 2001 would have looked if the actors had been dressed in 1968's best guess at futuristic clothing rather than slightly tweaked contemporary wear. Imagine if Deckard in Bladerunner had worn something other than generic 'private eye' clobber.

I think things like the jeans and t-shirt combo will take an awfully long time to die. And as for formal wear, I believe you could make the case that the rate of change is dropping. Compare male formal attire from 1910 and 2010. Huge difference, right? But it's as nothing to the vast gulf between 1810 and 1910.

Maybe, on closer inspection minor details like necklines and other such things were ever so slightly too '2006-2009', but the important thing so far as I'm concerned was that the clothing was not particularly noticeable. Can we compromise with an agreement that Minority Report gets the balance just right?

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by ISV Venture Star

Personally I'm of the opinion that keeping most (perhaps not all) of the costumes unobtrusive is the best strategy. Imagine how awful parts of 2001 would have looked if the actors had been dressed in 1968's best guess at futuristic clothing rather than slightly tweaked contemporary wear. Imagine if Deckard in Bladerunner had worn something other than generic 'private eye' clobber.

I think things like the jeans and t-shirt combo will take an awfully long time to die. And as for formal wear, I believe you could make the case that the rate of change is dropping. Compare male formal attire from 1910 and 2010. Huge difference, right? But it's as nothing to the vast gulf between 1810 and 1910.

Maybe, on closer inspection minor details like necklines and other such things were ever so slightly too '2006-2009', but the important thing so far as I'm concerned was that the clothing was not particularly noticeable. Can we compromise with an agreement that Minority Report gets the balance just right?

All I was arguing for WAS slightly tweaked, unobtrusive civilian-wear. I'm not entirely sure where you got I wanted outlandish costumes from? And I'd agree with Minority Report , and also Gattaca (I was so, SO impressed with the futures shown in those movies) - but then again, they aren't set 140 years from now. *shrugs* It's a minor complaint to be sure, I just wish I wasn't left with the vague feeling that Cameron didn't care enough about non-Pandoran world-building to bother even thinking about it.

[ISV Venture Star]

Originally Posted by Ashen Key

It's a minor complaint to be sure, I just wish I wasn't left with the vague feeling that Cameron didn't care enough about non-Pandoran world-building to bother even thinking about it.

I imagine he did think about it and he decided not to bother. If I were in his position I would do pretty much the same. I get the impression that he and I are of a similar mindset.

[Sothis]

Originally Posted by Ashen Key

It's a minor complaint to be sure, I just wish I wasn't left with the vague feeling that Cameron didn't care enough about non-Pandoran world-building to bother even thinking about it.

He actually did a lot of non-Pandoran world-building, if you look at all the thought that went into designing the human vehicles and equipment. The Pandorapedia page on the ISV Venture Star is one of the most impressive things I've seen in science fiction.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Sothis

He actually did a lot of non-Pandoran world-building, if you look at all the thought that went into designing the human vehicles and equipment. The Pandorapedia page on the ISV Venture Star is one of the most impressive things I've seen in science fiction.

Oh, it is! Sorry, I didn't explain myself clearly - I meant, non-Pandoran and non-technical. The gadgets are shiny and Cameron clearly loves trying to get them right.

[ISV Venture Star]

Originally Posted by Sothis

The Pandorapedia page on the ISV Venture Star is one of the most impressive things I've seen in science fiction.

Absolutely no doubt about that. Have you seen this?

[Sothis]

Originally Posted by ISV Venture Star

Absolutely no doubt about that. Have you seen this?

No, I hadn't, but now I have. My geeky heart thanks you for the link, though my productivity doesn't :-p

[Human No More]

I thought all the designs were excellent - not typically what you'd see now, but unrecognisably plausible and 'near-future' style.

[SaphirJD]

Dont Think so. That makes a good Villain a good Villain - That even some people are rooting with him/her/them.

Villains that are only hated are just poor and dumb ones.