Anti-RDA movement on Earth?

[Isard]

I'm quite interested as to how JC's going to explain the RDA being a maniacal government force when the US is still a global superpower. (ie: the USMC still exists) This is either going to be major retcon or an interesting tale.

[Fosus]

Maybe WE should start an anti-RDA right now! An organisation against commercial space-exploration.

Whatever we might find from the space, dead rocks or unknown civilisations, greedy shareholders shouldn't be in control of it.

What do you think?

[Isard]

Originally Posted by Fosus

Maybe WE should start an anti-RDA right now! An organisation against commercial space-exploration.

Whatever we might find from the space, dead rocks or unknown civilisations, greedy shareholders shouldn't be in control of it.

What do you think?

I find this offensive.

[Tsyal Makto]

Well, those plants and animals were gone, and there was plenty of research behind Pandoraforming Earth. Sure, there'd be risks, but from the sounds of it they paled in comparison to the possible benefits. RDA was bringing things back, as well, but they were just weaponizing things (which the resistance was also fighting). If you really want to know about this stuff, just buy the Survival Guide.


So you'd be willing to risk the rise of an RDA for the sake of commercial spaceflight?

And what if it starts doing what the RDA in Avatar did? Then we'd be in the same position as the resistance.

And regulation would actually benefit any space market that might emerge. Letting some megacorporation try and get the whole pie would just result in a monopoly (again, like RDA), which could just charge whatever it wanted if there was no alternative. Then you'd have no cheap spaceflight, as well as a corporatocracy tearing up the galaxy. Regulation would create real competition, like Germany's social market economy, while ensuring ethical and environmental standards are followed.. Lower prices, and better ethics, regulation would be a win-win-win for us, the Earth, and other worlds.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

So you'd be willing to risk the rise of an RDA for the sake of commercial spaceflight?

And what if it starts doing what the RDA in Avatar did? Then we'd be in the same position as the resistance.

No. I'm saying there is no point in protesting a science-fantasy-type megacorporation THAT DOESN'T EXIST when the last time anyone went to the moon, it was the seventies (not to mention that the RDA only controls resources - nothing has been said about the evolution of space flight in that universe). And then the US government lost interest. Commercial spaceflight would make things cheaper, therefore we can start to actually get space-stations up, colonies up. Now, if you don't want those things at all, we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Look at the colonization of the Americas. Commercial backing for a lot of those ships. Most of them, I would argue.

But frankly, commercial backing is how things are done in our society. Either that, or an arms race. And of the two, commercial backing is less likely to blow all of us up.

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

And regulation would actually benefit any space market that might emerge. Letting some megacorporation try and get the whole pie would just result in a monopoly (again, like RDA), which could just charge whatever it wanted if there was no alternative. Then you'd have no cheap spaceflight, as well as a corporatocracy tearing up the galaxy. Regulation would create real competition, like Germany's social market economy, while ensuring ethical and environmental standards are followed.. Lower prices, and better ethics, regulation would be a win-win-win for us, the Earth, and other worlds.

Yes. Regulation is good. I'm so not going to argue about this. But there is not point in protesting a megacorporation taking control when it hasn't done so, nor is it likely that it will happen anytime soon. Is my point. I appreciate that my point got a little confused, but that's my main one.

Of COURSE regulation is a good thing, I'm the last person to argue against that.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

Well, those plants and animals were gone, and there was plenty of research behind Pandoraforming Earth. Sure, there'd be risks, but from the sounds of it they paled in comparison to the possible benefits.

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

And what if it starts doing what the RDA in Avatar did? Then we'd be in the same position as the resistance.

Irony makes me giddy.

[Tsyal Makto]

But with the trend of things, a megacorporation could very well emerge in the future. Look at the trends toward mergers/consolidation today. The banks are merging, the energy companies are merging, the manufactorers are merging, etc. Who knows where this could go in the future?

Of course I want space exploration, I'd just perfer it be done by more reasonably sized businesses than somebody like Wal-Mart or Royal Dutch Shell. Could it take a bit longer than if we let the corporatists do it? Yes, but given the track record of the Dutch/British East India Companies, I'm willing to wait.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

But with the trend of things, a megacorporation could very well emerge in the future. Look at the trends toward mergers/consolidation today. The banks are merging, the energy companies are merging, the manufactorers are merging, etc. Who knows where this could go in the future?

Of course I want space exploration, I'd just perfer it be done by more reasonably sized businesses than somebody like Wal-Mart or Royal Dutch Shell. Could it take a bit longer than if we let the corporatists do it? Yes, but given the track record of the Dutch/British East India Companies, I'm willing to wait.

Then protest what is happening ALREADY. Protest the energy companies that are ruining our planet, protest Nike, protest all of that. But I just think worrying about an actual RDA taking over space is premature. Particularly as that energy and drive could be better spent protesting things that are happening NOW.

[Tsyal Makto]

What now, Isard?

Taking samples and seeds back to Earth is not exploiting Pandora the same way the RDA is. Stop with the false equivalences, already.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

What now, Isard?

Taking samples and seeds back to Earth is not exploiting Pandora the same way the RDA is. Stop with the false equivalences, already.

It's also DANGEROUS. Introducing new species to an environment is NEVER, EVER, EVER a good idea. If they can clone tigers in Avatar, they can clone plants, and use the plants that have already evolved on Earth to fix things. Introducing a new species? Either it'll die, or it will utterly thrive, and the latter scares me. The effects of foreign species surviving is all kinds of bad.

I'm slightly surprised that I have to say this in a fandom that prides itself on being so environmentally aware.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

I don't think the resistance and the Na'vi have ever communicated. As it sounds in the Survival Guide, it seems like the resistance is trying to bring samples of Pandoran plants back that could be used to heal the environment (as opposed to unobtainium).

there's a mention on the bit about the FTL communications on them having their own transmitter.

Originally Posted by Isard

I'm quite interested as to how JC's going to explain the RDA being a maniacal government force when the US is still a global superpower. (ie: the USMC still exists) This is either going to be major retcon or an interesting tale.

He never said they are a government. Clearly you need to reread the background

Originally Posted by Fosus

Maybe WE should start an anti-RDA right now! An organisation against commercial space-exploration.

Whatever we might find from the space, dead rocks or unknown civilisations, greedy shareholders shouldn't be in control of it.

What do you think?

Great idea, I'm in.

[QUOTE=Ashen Key;123485]...Oh, this makes me twitch. Introducing foreign wildlife is BAD. So bad. My continent is being ruined by foreign wildlife. How easily they forget.

A) we NEED commercial space-exploration if we are to get anywhere - the governments, by and large, aren't that interested, due to the expense. We need companies and things to get involved. The question is just making sure they don't turn out like the RDA. Besides, governments being in control of what we find out in space makes me nervous, too.

There's difference between commercial and commercialised.

B) Shareholders aren't evil. Usually they are just normal people trying to earn some more money and get some more assets. This is not a bad thing. It's simply how one gets by in our culture. If you want to blame something, blame capitalism - not the average citizens trying to get by.

An optimistic view, but one that they don't share themselves.

Originally Posted by Ashen Key

I'm still going to twitch - it's an ingrained response. And I think there is more like than that - rats, cats, dogs, various types of bird and other omnivorous things that already live in our cities. Not to mention the kind of plants that can grow in cities (and there wouldn't BE any botany without plants, so if there is no plants, Grace wouldn't be a doctor) or are grown in vertical farms, or on roofs.

Just because there USED to be other species doesn't mean they still exist.

And *rubs head* I fail to understand how they think lifeforms FROM ANOTHER PLANET, would help. It's another planet, with logically a very different soil make-up, and a very different atmosphere, and....I'm not sure how that's going to work. They might as well try cloning Earth plants and starting over, at least it's from the same planet

The atmosphere is almost identical. One of the best examples of a plant is one that removes many toxic compounds from soil which is mentioned in the guide as potentially being very useful for Earth. They DO mention risks, but they also say that it is worth it, and I agree, since there is almost no life left on Earth, at all.

I guess my thought is - can we get to space first and protest later? *wry* We're not going to get there at ALL at this point, and there is no point in protesting a problem that doesn't exist. We have mega orporations here, yes (dear America, please sort out the crap that goes down in your own country or originates there, and THEN start to worry about the rest of the world), but they're not involved in space. And if we get commerical space-flights, then it becomes cheaper, and the technology is developed, and we can start having a space age. Which'd be nice.

No problem there, but as I said above, there's a huge difference between companies actually offering the capability, and the commercialisation of space.

Originally Posted by Ashen Key

It's also DANGEROUS. Introducing new species to an environment is NEVER, EVER, EVER a good idea. If they can clone tigers in Avatar, they can clone plants, and use the plants that have already evolved on Earth to fix things. Introducing a new species? Either it'll die, or it will utterly thrive, and the latter scares me. The effects of foreign species surviving is all kinds of bad.

There is no life left on Earth. They DO mention risks, but they also say that it is worth it, and I agree, since there is almost no life left on Earth, at all.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Human No More

There is no life left on Earth. They DO mention risks, but they also say that it is worth it, and I agree, since there is almost no life left on Earth, at all.

What's wrong with using Earth plants? They would have the genetic records of them, like they do with all the animals they are cloning back. And they are EARTH plants, which would bring Earth BACK to where it was.

Not have Earth colonized by alien species, which is what you are all talking about. Maybe combiningg with trace Pandoran elements, to harden them up IF NEEDED, but colonization by foreign species is bad. Even with the best intentions, it always goes horribly wrong.

I really don't understand why they would use Pandoran plants, and not Earth ones. If pollution is the worry, it's not like Pandoran plants are going to cope any better. And like I said, I don't really get why I have to say that colonization by foreign wildlife is bad in a fandom that claims to be so environmentally aware.

Originally Posted by Isard

Either the RDA is a corporate entity that is under the oversight of a global governing body, or their a mega corporation that controls the world.

The RDA are quasi-governmental, but as far as I understand it, they are under the oversight/have to obey the rules set down by the UN. They are not quite purely government, not quite purely corporation.

[Isard]

Seriously, I love this.


First you talk about importing an alien environment to earth, and rationalize the risks as "worth it". Then start bashing on colonization using "what if" rationals.

[Tsyal Makto]

Originally Posted by Isard

Seriously, I love this.


First you talk about importing an alien environment to earth, and rationalize the risks as "worth it". Then start bashing on colonization using "what if" rationals.

You honestly can't tell the difference, Isard? You honestly can't tell the difference between the situations that Earth and Pandora were facing? Or the motives between the RDA and the resistance? Or between simple exploratory colonization and colonization that exploits the guest world? (And just to beat you to it) The difference between exploiting the guest world and taking samples of the guest world's flora/fauna to heal the home world?

Like I said before, you're just trying to draw false equivelences.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

You honestly can't tell the difference, Isard? You honestly can't tell the difference between the situations that Earth and Pandora were facing? Or the motives between the RDA and the resistance? Or between simple exploratory colonization and colonization that exploits the guest world? (And just to beat you to it) The difference between exploiting the guest world and taking samples of the guest world's flora/fauna to heal the home world?

Like I said before, you're just trying to draw false equivelences.

No, I'm pointing out a flaw in your logic.

You argue against colonization using "what if's", and then dismiss "what if's" in regards to importing alien species.

How can you not see this?