The most plausible explanation for Christ I have ever seen.

[Banefull]

I know you didn't mean any harm Spock but please understand our point of view.

There ARE some people out there who do go out of their way just to piss us off (similar to how trolls visit TOS occasionally just to mess with us). Distinguishing between the two isn't always easy because honestly, I find that most jokes, while highly exaggerated, are, to some varying degree, generally reflective of what the person actually thinks.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Spock

The caption is wrong for one which discredits it.

As far as I know, Hitler is the only person in that caption who isn't an atheist (though he was borderline). Still, the alternate poster that supports atheism has at least three people in it who were never atheists (two of which spoke against it).

Originally Posted by Spock

Furthermore there have been some great athiests past and present. That's besides the point, anyway....

I understand that. The point I was making was that a "joke" can be taken quite differently by someone who believes in what's being joked about. If I started "joking" about things you believed and it was insulting, wouldn't you cry 'foul' as well as the others here who have already?

Originally Posted by Spock

I've only opened a can of worms if you make it so. This isn't threatening anyone.

It isn't threatening, it's just downright mean. As I said, it isn't what you intended rather than what's perceived by others, and as has been shown (from other members speaking up, not just me), you've clearly made a mistake in judgment to how certain people would react.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

Now I don't know about you, but this topic, no matter what the intent was, has been taken hard by a few of us. As Ashen Key once told me, it's not what the author's intent was, it's how it was perceived by the audience (or somewhere around those lines).

The Author is Dead is the short form of it, but pretty much...yes, this. It doesn't actually matter what the intent is, what matters is how people perceive it.

So, what I SHOULD have said before (and didn't because I got distracted, my bad), is: the original post is rather in bad taste. I'd expect this at one of my online atheist communities, but there it's not going to offend anyone. Here, it will and HAS offended people.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Banefull

I know you didn't mean any harm Spock but please understand our point of view.

There ARE some people out there who do go out of their way just to piss us off (similar to how trolls visit TOS occasionally just to mess with us). Distinguishing between the two isn't always easy because honestly, I find that most jokes, while highly exaggerated, are, to some varying degree, generally reflective of what the person actually thinks.

I understand it, but that doesn't make it valid. More energy needs to be spent dealing with genuine insults.

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

As far as I know, Hitler is the only person in that caption who isn't an atheist (though he was borderline). Still, the alternate poster that supports atheism has at least three people in it who were never atheists (two of which spoke against it).

That's besides the point anyway. There are great athiests out there as well as great Christians, you also get the bad apples in both groups.

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

I understand that. The point I was making was that a "joke" can be taken quite differently by someone who believes in what's being joked about. If I started "joking" about things you believed and it was insulting, wouldn't you cry 'foul' as well as the others here who have already?

It shouldn't be taken as anything more than a joke. Besides if you know something to be true then you wouldn't feel insulted by any form of criticism. This however isn't criticism, it is a simple 'joke'.

Do you want me to edit my original post and state that it is explicitly a joke?

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

It isn't threatening, it's just downright mean. As I said, it isn't what you intended rather than what's perceived by others, and as has been shown (from other members speaking up, not just me), you've clearly made a mistake in judgment to how certain people would react.

That sounds a lot like arguing for the sake of arguing. Liberate yourself a little bit. It's really not necessary.

Originally Posted by Ashen Key

The Author is Dead is the short form of it, but pretty much...yes, this. It doesn't actually matter what the intent is, what matters is how people perceive it.

So, what I SHOULD have said before (and didn't because I got distracted, my bad), is: the original post is rather in bad taste. I'd expect this at one of my online atheist communities, but there it's not going to offend anyone. Here, it will and HAS offended people.

For some reason I've found the religious cult we have here on ToS is far more fanatical and devote in its beliefs than any religious institution I've ever encountered (maybe a few exceptions). The response to my OP exemplifies this. This was the last place I expected a response like this to; lets face it, a joke.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Spock

It shouldn't be taken as anything more than a joke. Besides if you know something to be true then you wouldn't feel insulted by any form of criticism. This however isn't criticism, it is a simple 'joke'.

Which offended people. It happens. I can get exceedingly offended by people joking about atheism - it's not about what I know (or think I know - I'm in the 'there is probably no form of god' atheism camp), but about the respect being shown to what I believe.

Originally Posted by Spock

For some reason I've found the religious cult we have here on ToS is far more fanatical and devote in its beliefs than any religious institution I've ever encountered (maybe a few exceptions). The response to my OP exemplifies this. This was the last place I expected a response like this to; lets face it, a joke.

A joke which people got offended at. Just because it's a joke doesn't let it off the hook. And, yes, it's a mild joke, but offence is offence. I'm not about to crack any zombie!jesus jokes in a place like this, precisely BECAUSE I know that there are Christians here, and I have no wish to offend them. I don't actually LIKE religion that much, but I'd really prefer it if this didn't start off a precedent of us mocking each other's religious (or lack thereof) beliefs.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Ashen Key

A joke which people got offended at. Just because it's a joke doesn't let it off the hook. And, yes, it's a mild joke, but offence is offence. I'm not about to crack any zombie!jesus jokes in a place like this, precisely BECAUSE I know that there are Christians here, and I have no wish to offend them. I don't actually LIKE religion that much, but I'd really prefer it if this didn't start off a precedent of us mocking each other's religious (or lack thereof) beliefs.

I could argue from another point of view now. What if I said I truly believe Jesus was a Jedi master? (this will prove interesting)

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Spock

I could argue from another point of view now. What if I said I truly believe Jesus was a Jedi master? (this will prove interesting)

Not biting.

[Eltu]

Even though the OP was made with the best of intentions, the fact remains - some people found it insulting and/or offensive.

Because of that I'd recommend you, Spock, to edit out the link in the first post. I won't take any action myself as of yet, but I will if this escalates to something worse.

Eltu

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Ashen Key

Not biting.

Look, I'm not a troll. I'm just suggesting a medium through which I can get my point across. Someone will bite. Hopefully you can see where I'm going with this though.

Originally Posted by Eltu

Even though the OP was made with the best of intentions, the fact remains - some people found it insulting and/or offensive.

Because of that I'd recommend you, Spock, to edit out the link in the first post. I won't take any action myself as of yet, but I will if this escalates to something worse.

Eltu

Thank you for your recommendation Eltu.

I think I'll give it a bit more time to get my views across in the calmest way possible though.

[Eltu]

As for truly believing Jesus was a jedi master - it all boils down to intentions.

If you truly believed so, I would respect it. If you would use this belief as a tool to provoke a certain reaction from others, I would not.

Clearly it's the second case here.

Oh and - I wouldn't ever close this thread myself or remove the first post. If many people are offended by this particular post of Spock and he continues to be unwilling to remove it, I'd instead recommend these people to use the ignore function - as simple as that.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Eltu

As for truly believing Jesus was a jedi master - it all boils down to intentions.

If you truly believed so, I would respect it. If you would use this belief as a tool to provoke a certain reaction from others, I would not.

Clearly it's the second case here.

Oh and - I wouldn't ever close this thread myself or remove the first post. If many people are offended by this particular post of Spock and he continues to be unwilling to remove it, I'd instead recommend these people to use the ignore function - as simple as that.

Exactly, although I will state I'm 'not' baiting with regards to my question. It has a more intellectual purpose.

[Eltu]

Considering this thread was made to share a joke, that would be kind of moot.

[tm20]

who is:
-the guy next to stalin
-the asian next to kim
-the 2 dudes in the corner

???

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Eltu

Considering this thread was made to share a joke, that would be kind of moot.

Unfortunately others made it so.

Originally Posted by tm20

who is:
-the guy next to stalin
-the asian next to kim
-the 2 dudes in the corner

???

- ?
- Ho Chi Minh by the looks of it
- ?

[Banefull]

Normally, I would not have anything to do with this thread but I do not like where this is going.

Imagine if someone came on here making a thread cracking a joke about gay and/or transgender people. I would imagine that the resulting responses would be quite a firestorm. Should gay people just "lighten up?" The thing is, often times, jokes about a particular group of people or set of beliefs requires an implied premise in order to "get the joke." Usually this is the notion that "something is obviously wrong with them or it." When you do these kinds of things in public, you put someone's dignity on the line and when you do, sparks will fly.

I don't mind what you posted Spock but I would be rather worried about the potential direction this thread could go in. On these forums, talk about these things sometimes does and has resulted in small snipes of direct bashing.


Edit: To clarify, I was not offended at all (a thing or two in there was a little amusing) but the above is why I don't think this thread was a good idea in the first place.