James Cameron bought 50 RED EPIC-Ms

[Aaron]

Yes, they've decided to focus on "professional," whatever that means. IMO, for them, it's kind of a meaningless term because they aren't hopelessly tangled up in their own marketing like so many other camera companies are.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what SCARLET turns out to be, though--one week to go! I love the DSMC concept.

[mikkowilson]

Professional is real BNC and XLR connectors. not some mini crap...

- Mikko

[Alan]

Oooo, both my cameras got BNC and XLR....now how do you work them ...Hehehehe....sorry.

One of them is a dinky Canon XF105 which is geared up for 3D filming with genlock and vert/horiz shift. I'm currently learning about stereography at the moment so I can decide whether to take the plunge and have a go or not.

So are Scalets like a 'mid range version' of the RED one? The 50 REDs that JC bought, are they going to be used to capture at the higher frame rate he was talking about? I guess the cinemas with need to upgrade to keep up again.

Alan

[Moco Loco]

I don't think cinemas will need to upgrade this time Vast majority of them are already capable of 60 fps.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

I don't think cinemas will need to upgrade this time Vast majority of them are already capable of 60 fps.

Indeed. Digital ones don't have the same limitations that may be inherent in older projectors designed around 24fps - the most that they might need is a firmware upgrade. As it is, RealD screens are already capable of projecting 144fps.

Originally Posted by Aaron

The list of movies shot on RED is growing rapidly, so one would reasonably expect that any production-stopping issues with heating would be solved by now. I understand that the first RED One production was halted frequently because of overheating, which actually turned out to be a faulty sensor--which was discovered only after days of shooting with ice packs on the sides of the camera!

Brilliant

[mikkowilson]

It's relatively easy for a digital cinema to present higher frame-rate material. Many are already for it.

The Scarlet was originally marketed as a "Pro-Sumer RED", Unlike RED One, which has now been "superseded" by the newer "RED Epic" .. which is what JC bought a bunch of.

I doubt he's using the REDs for more than testing at this point. REDs don't cut it to my standard of speed of use. I can't imagine Jim putting up with some of the BS that comes with "the RED workflow".

- Mikko

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by mikkowilson

Professional is real BNC and XLR connectors. not some mini crap...

Yeah, I never got that about the RED One. Despite its size, it was all minis (and there was a big aftermarket for adapters, which *everybody* bought ).

For the EPIC and SCARLET, there is supposedly a module that mounts to the back and provides full-sized XLR and whatnot. Pic is on the RED site somewhere, but I don't think it's for sale yet.

Originally Posted by mikkowilson

Rads don't cut it to my standard of speed of use.

Out of curiosity, what do you see them doing wrong in that regard?

I have a Sony NX5, which has been my "big-boy toy" for most of two years now. I like it a lot, but would love to play with some higher resolutions and framerates as well, so I've been contemplating a SCARLET and demoting the NX5 to "B-cam," heheh...

[mikkowilson]

I want to shoot with a camera, not fiddle with it.

I see the REDs like a "big boys DSLR". Lots of crap to tinker with; and great results if you want to do all that.

But having production come to a complete halt for 2 minutes while you wait for it to re-boot because it overheated; or having to have adapters to feed converters to do anything with it; and nothing be standard .. it's just not my workflow.

I turn on my TV camera and hit record. I'm recording in 2 seconds from hitting the power switch.

- Mikko

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by mikkowilson

But having production come to a complete halt for 2 minutes while you wait for it to re-boot because it overheated.

Haven't heard of that being a problem except with actual DSLRs, which have maximum video shoot times of 20 mins or so in many cases. There's just no room for a real heat sink on the sensor block in those things, so shooting video on a DSLR is a bit like overclocking a CPU without added cooling.

The list of movies shot on RED is growing rapidly, so one would reasonably expect that any production-stopping issues with heating would be solved by now. I understand that the first RED One production was halted frequently because of overheating, which actually turned out to be a faulty sensor--which was discovered only after days of shooting with ice packs on the sides of the camera!

Originally Posted by mikkowilson

I turn on my TV camera and hit record. I'm recording in 2 seconds from hitting the power switch.

I definitely get that; the RED is not a run-n-gun thing yet. They seem to be trying to move in that direction, however, with the fixed zoom (which they may have scrapped--hopefully not), 2/3" sensor, and other little changes here and there, which ought to make it far more effective for this purpose than the average DSLR, anyway.

Regardless, I'll be keeping the NX5.

I've downloaded many large sample shots in R3D format and played with running them through Premiere, AE, Magic Bullet, etc., and have been pleased with the performance. It's not like working with AVCHD--which used to suck but now rocks on my six-core Xeon--but it's perfectly tolerable. Then again, I'm a low-volume shop.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Aaron

Haven't heard of that being a problem except with actual DSLRs, which have maximum video shoot times of 20 mins or so in many cases. There's just no room for a real heat sink on the sensor block in those things, so shooting video on a DSLR is a bit like overclocking a CPU without added cooling.

This I have experience of, when I was shooting holiday footage with mine earlier this year. It kept shutting down and felt all rather nice (not) and warm. Mine you it didn't help it being 35C at the time!

On my EX1 though, there is a gap between the camera body and recording 'block', obviously to keep the air flow past where the sensors are to keep them cool.

Originally Posted by Aaron

I definitely get that; the RED is not a run-n-gun thing yet. They seem to be trying to move in that direction, however, with the fixed zoom (which they may have scrapped--hopefully not), 2/3" sensor, and other little changes here and there, which ought to make it far more effective for this purpose than the average DSLR, anyway.

I took a look a look at the red website. Wondered why they had so many grills on them. Look more like lamps than cameras! Hehehe. I can see why the Epic and Scarlet are dinky things as it makes them ideal for 3D rigs as they are small.

It looks like you'll be fine on the lens front, as RED do three zooms, which tend to get used on 3D rigs more to save camera set up time for alignment. The also have quite a range of primes too.

Originally Posted by Aaron

Regardless, I'll be keeping the NX5.

I've downloaded many large sample shots in R3D format and played with running them through Premiere, AE, Magic Bullet, etc., and have been pleased with the performance. It's not like working with AVCHD--which used to suck but now rocks on my six-core Xeon--but it's perfectly tolerable. Then again, I'm a low-volume shop.

Yeah, I like my EX1 too. Didn't know you could download RED footage to try out. Do you have a link? Irayo. Think my PC might cough and splutter a bit though as it is 2008 vintage and quad core. Hehehe.

Interesting stuff this. I learning all the time. Irayo.

Alan

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Alan

Didn't know you could download RED footage to try out. Do you have a link? Irayo.

Absolutely! Most of it came from scraping the reduser.net forum over the last year. I'll go back and look for the original links tonight, and if I can't find them then I'll just post the R3D files somewhere for you to get. Also, come next Thursday, I expect there will be a bunch of new SCARLET 3K (?) raw footage posted to the forums.

If you're using Premiere, you'll want to get the latest REDCODE importer, which is located here:
RED EPIC Importer | digital video software - Adobe Labs

I'm not sure where the plugins for FCP, Avid, etc., are found, but I'm sure they exist.

Originally Posted by mikkowilson

I was under the impression that REDs still have heat issues. And take ages to boot, regardless of why you shut them down.

I don't doubt that cooling them--particularly the EPIC with its enormous silicon--is difficult! Might be easier on a SCARLET with a 2/3" sensor, if they go that route. No idea about the boot times. In all the demos I've seen, the thing is already powered on.

[mikkowilson]

I've got the original Mysterium Sensor RED test footage kicking around here somewhere... Don't recall what format though.


I was under the impression that REDs still have heat issues. And take ages to boot, regardless of why you shut them down.

- Mikko

[Alan]

Originally Posted by mikkowilson

I was under the impression that REDs still have heat issues. And take ages to boot, regardless of why you shut them down.

Not called 'REDs' for nothing then!

Alan

[mikkowilson]

I thought it was because the battery capacity remaining meter was always in the red?

Shot battery life and long boot-times. Wonderful.

- Mikko

[Theorist]

idk how you guys can tell the difference, 1280x760 or whatever looks the same on my computer as 1920x1080, except size. And I can't tell the difference between 30fps and 60 fps in games. Maybe I'm slow lol. But I hope this is good news for A2