The armed forces - Are they really "Thugs?"

[Human No More]

Which side the people are on doesn't change the fact that they are prepared to kill people. RainbowHawk, you are the only person who talks about the US specifically, most people here are not even American.

The fact that people see a need to desensitise people to killing another person in the first place is what's wrong, and it creates huge issues with normal society as well.
On another point, they tend to have that mentality, that they are so great because they killed someone or might do so, assuming that people should respect them for that or having some overly righteous view of their actions where they have twisted it into 'they are bad guys so we kill them' - in effect, dehumanising other people.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Human No More

The fact that people see a need to desensitise people to killing another person in the first place is what's wrong, and it creates huge issues with normal society as well.

That's because only 20% of the population will actually pull the trigger - not even aim to kill, but just pull the trigger - in combat situations, according to studies conducted by the US military post-WWII, and that figure is consistent with battle-field archaeology. So, they changed the training to get more shots fired.

Of course, then you have everyone firing, and still not that many aiming to kill (I forgot the ratio in Vietnam of bullets fired to someone getting killed, but it's in the tens of thousands bullets to one dead enemy solider, IIRC).

And then society turns around and blames the soldiers for being trained that way, which leads to its own MAJOR problems, (such as extremely high PTSD rates) and ugh, it's awful.

[Moco Loco]

I have mixed opinions of the military. I guess they are necessary for a lot of reasons, but I know I could never join. The only branch I have even thought of joining once was the Coast Guard (the pussiest branch, I am aware), because I needed someone to pay for my college I don't think I could ever kill anyone.

[vonwilhelm34]

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

I have mixed opinions of the military. I guess they are necessary for a lot of reasons, but I know I could never join. The only branch I have even thought of joining once was the Coast Guard (the pussiest branch, I am aware), because I needed someone to pay for my college I don't think I could ever kill anyone.

Actually the US Coast Guard has the second toughest boot camp in the world, behind the USMC. The Coast Guard is a blend of Police, Military, and SWAT. They have to be ready for any type of combat situation out there. And before any of you do a negative response, I am a 4 year veteran of the USMC Infantry 2b-8th Marines.

[caveman]

The armed forces is a very large group of men and women. Asking if they are thugs is asking for an irrational stereotype.

Some people join the army to kick ass and "show them who's boss". Some people join because they want to end genocides and protect people from malicious warlords. There is a huge range in motivation that needs to be considered. We also need to consider if those motivations are legitimate or well-thought out. For example, some people join to "serve their country", without ever thinking that being a biologist could do better for others than fighting in war. And finally we need to consider the people who command these troops - the people behind the desk. These people too have a range in motivations that need to be considered.

The point is, there's a lot of things that need to be considered. I could be totally against the actions of one soldier and 100% for the actions of another.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

The only branch I have even thought of joining once was the Coast Guard (the pussiest branch, I am aware)

If we could all go WITHOUT the gendered insults, and the implication that part of a woman's anatomy is a bad, weak thing, that'd be marvellous, thanks.

Originally Posted by caveman

The armed forces is a very large group of men and women. Asking if they are thugs is asking for an irrational stereotype.

Some people join the army to kick ass and "show them who's boss". Some people join because they want to end genocides and protect people from malicious warlords. There is a huge range in motivation that needs to be considered. We also need to consider if those motivations are legitimate or well-thought out. For example, some people join to "serve their country", without ever thinking that being a biologist could do better for others than fighting in war. And finally we need to consider the people who command these troops - the people behind the desk. These people too have a range in motivations that need to be considered.

The point is, there's a lot of things that need to be considered. I could be totally against the actions of one soldier and 100% for the actions of another.

And, this. So very, very much this.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

I have mixed opinions of the military. I guess they are necessary for a lot of reasons, but I know I could never join. The only branch I have even thought of joining once was the Coast Guard (the pussiest branch, I am aware), because I needed someone to pay for my college I don't think I could ever kill anyone.

The Coastguard are bad asses. They might not go to war as such, but they run coastal stings on drug runners, fly into storms, and generally give a "**** you" to mother nature.

[applejuice]

The average soldier is not a thug, but many commanders are. The whole matter reduces to whom you put in the head of the Army. Soldiers only do as it is commanded to them. Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule (such as militia in Syria). If you put a butcher for Supreme Commander, expect a carnage. If you put a very well educated person, expect superb victories.

[Moco Loco]

Sorry if I have offended. I never meant to imply that I personally had a bad opinion of the Coast Guard (if I was ever thinking of joining, it's probably my favorite branch). Literally every other person I've talked to enlisted in the military seems to think the Coast Guard is a bunch of losers, and I was led to believe that was the general consensus. I also apologize for offensive language. I am extremely politically incorrect. I'll have to learn some forum etiquette.

[X.,.Pandora.,.X]

No, simple as that, they are people who are willing to do a job that most people are not willing to do. Putting their lives on the line to protect others. Nothing about that is thuggish

[vonwilhelm34]

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

Sorry if I have offended. I never meant to imply that I personally had a bad opinion of the Coast Guard (if I was ever thinking of joining, it's probably my favorite branch). Literally every other person I've talked to enlisted in the military seems to think the Coast Guard is a bunch of losers, and I was led to believe that was the general consensus. I also apologize for offensive language. I am extremely politically incorrect. I'll have to learn some forum etiquette.

No problem, I was just trying to warn you. That way you wasn't expecting an easy ride, if you joined up.

[Советский меч]

Originally Posted by applejuice

The average soldier is not a thug, but many commanders are. The whole matter reduces to whom you put in the head of the Army. Soldiers only do as it is commanded to them. Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule (such as militia in Syria). If you put a butcher for Supreme Commander, expect a carnage. If you put a very well educated person, expect superb victories.

[iron_jones]

I have never ever heard anyone even imply that American soldiers are "thugs"

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by applejuice

The average soldier is not a thug, but many commanders are. The whole matter reduces to whom you put in the head of the Army. Soldiers only do as it is commanded to them. Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule (such as militia in Syria). If you put a butcher for Supreme Commander, expect a carnage. If you put a very well educated person, expect superb victories.

It's really not that simple - both on the 'carnage' and 'superb victories' aspect.

[X.,.Pandora.,.X]

Originally Posted by X.,.Pandora.,.X

No, simple as that, they are people who are willing to do a job that most people are not willing to do. Putting their lives on the line to protect others. Nothing about that is thuggish

/close thread