"Anonymous" fights for Nature and against the tar sands

[Isard]

Originally Posted by iron_jones

I just can't comprehend anonymous doing something that isn't terrible

Anonymous has no morals, no allegiance (except to lulz), and no beliefs. The just do things. Anything. For the lulz.

[Empty Glass]

Originally Posted by Advent

I still think fighting corporations hardly does anything. They'll just be more of them. Making laws against environmental harm is a better idea.

That is, if anyone is actually willing to implement such laws.

The problem is that it can be a very difficult and drawn-out process to get many such laws passed...at least at the federal level in the U.S. anyway, and especially with the current Congress.

So yes, there are not always people willing to implement them...

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by auroraglacialis

everybody can be anonymous

Exactly. Anonymous isn't a group. It's a mass noun. You can't join. You can't leave. There are no leaders, no policies, there is no structure.

Anonymous does what they want. Any cause is possible. Just look at some of the impact anon have had already.

[auroraglacialis]

You cannot say that anonymous does not have an agenda because it is not an organization. Anyone can be anonymous and have an agenda.

Getting laws done - sure thing. But maybe sometime it takes taking on corporations to get laws done. If everyone is quiet, agreement is assumed, so be loud if you disagree.

[Advent]

^ Whether that agenda is right or wrong though remains to be seen. Anyone can make a wrong decision with the right intentions.

[BotanicalMedley]

Originally Posted by Advent

^ Whether that agenda is right or wrong though remains to be seen. Anyone can make a wrong decision with the right intentions.

Very true. On second thought, I'm not even sure if this is legitimate or not. The people on YouTube and on the website for this Anonymous stuff use things from the movie "V For Vendetta" as part of their signature and to add to the whole "anonymous" thing. When people who are part of this make videos, they wear V's mask. On a website made by someone who follows this, the picture you see is of people wearing masks of V. And they use the circle with the "v" in it in their videos sometimes. Maybe they want to look like they're not serious so when they act out if they do, the people of corporations, etc. will be shocked and afraid. But I don't know.

[Human No More]

The V/EFG mask part is mainly associatedwith Chanology. While many anons have previously had some involvement with Chanology, and a few even still ongoing, most anons' focus these days is on bigger things, and the groups do not overlap as much as it might appear when people mistake Anonymous for an organisation. Some anons take part in any campaign, others may only participate in ones that mean something to them (Operation Payback was one of the biggest ones in recent memory).

I find one of the 'mainstream' news sources that best understands the nature of Anonymous (in general reporting and outside specific features) is The Register.

[auroraglacialis]

I think this kind of organization is interesting, basically because it lacks any centralized organization at all. It is nonhierarchical and thus "anarchistic" in nature. Even though the examples I will now cite are maybe not to the ethical standards of readers (this is kind of a Disclaimer!), I'd like to point out that the ELF/ALF uses a similar strategy and originally the "Al Quaeda" was using something similar. In all cases, there is a common agenda (save the internet/the environment/animals - or kill people in case of the latter organization ), but each "member" becomes a member by his own following this agenda, by adopting the values of the others who call themselves by that name and possibly by loose affiliation to others. The strength of this of course is that even if someone arrests a guy who hacked some computer in the name of "anonymous" or some treehugger monkeywrenched a tree harvester to protect a forest in the name of the ELF or if someone opens the cages of a mink farm in the name of ALF and even someone who bombed something in the name of that terrorist "group" - they all are incapable to really uncover the whole "organization" as they all know only the few people they are affiliated with if any at all. this is why there are still deeds done that are signed by ELF or ALF and this is why the US has such a hard time fighting terrorism - because it is not organizations with a centralized structure or even a network of connections between all members that can be attacked. Its like a lizard that looses its tail if the predator catches it - just that it basically is a lot of tails and few heads

So I read that they arrested "anonymous" hackers in Eastern Europe and elsewhere lately in what they declare "cyber warfare", but there is no way that this weakens the idea of "anonymous" because basically that is what it is - an idea, a meme, and one cannot fight or arrest that as long as there are people following that idea.

(Closing disclaimer: I do not endorse the activities of any of the named groups, so please dont comment on the use of these examples. the intention was to show something about organizational structure and how this relates to "anonymous")

[Human No More]

I don't know about the other groups you mentioned when it comes to leaders, but otherwise they aren't that similar. They operate in groups of 'real' people, and know each other, while anonymous' participation comes from someone who could be anyone, and IIRC, several of those groups have leaders - anonymous have none other than consensus (obviously, anons have certain skills, whether writing, coding, cracking, video/image making or whatever, but they don't have any specific role based on that), and any anon can potentially get something started if enough people will join in.

[auroraglacialis]

from wikipedia: "The Earth Liberation Front has no formal leadership, hierarchy, membership or official spokesperson and is entirely decentralized; instead consisting of individuals or cells who choose the term as a banner to use. Individuals are commonly known to work in affinity groups"

I think that structure is very similar.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by auroraglacialis

from wikipedia: "The Earth Liberation Front has no formal leadership, hierarchy, membership or official spokesperson and is entirely decentralized; instead consisting of individuals or cells who choose the term as a banner to use. Individuals are commonly known to work in affinity groups"

I think that structure is very similar.

No. The ELF uses ELF as a label, Anonymous doesn't claim to be a part of anonymous. That's what people just don't understand.

[auroraglacialis]

Eh - anonymous uses "anonymous" as label. And that mask and a couple of other memes.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by auroraglacialis

Eh - anonymous uses "anonymous" as label. And that mask and a couple of other memes.

Not really. When people get bored and want attention, they "release" these little statements making vague threats. From time to time, somebody with allot of free time follows through with it, rarely are they even remotely connected. Its allot of hivemind talk and a few bored IT guys.

[auroraglacialis]

I guess what makes this kind of organizational structure a bit weak is that since there is not "proof" of someone being on the same side in this, you cannot know who he is and if you want to trust him. This is why they have all to be anonymous to each other as well.

And the whole thing is, at least if there are people who are not very savvy about security culture and the issues of privacy yet, that people might connect to the wrong kind of other people.

Take this:
What Is The Plan
(better use all script-blocking privacy plugins you have for your browser, as always with something that is potentially connected to "anonymous" )

Read the last parts of the explanations (on why they require registration and the next paragraphs after that). Some people will see this, and as they like the "anonymous" ideas dig it. I dont know what happens if you go through with it - maybe a big "you loose" will pop up, maybe it is just snitches or maybe some IT guy really had good intentions. But what I'm saing is that in such forms of organization it is even more important to be careful and this inevitably leads to paranoia and distrust. Sadly.
I dont know if that "hive mind" idea really works - if there is already a common goal that is out there and that people follow up on, then yeah - I am suspicious about the "hive mind" developing a goal though.

[Human No More]

If I didn't know better, I'd think you hadn't read the previous posts. Anonymous is not one group. It isn't a group at all. All definitions fall short, but collective may be a good one.