solar flares and the electric grid

[auroraglacialis]

AFAIK the only real working tactics is to take the grid down intentionally after a prediction was made by solar observations - that would save the transformators and they could go back online after a day or so. So that is the plan - hope for good predictions.
Broadband communication may go down even faster - sattellites you cannot just put into a hangar...

Oh and I just read that during the Carrington event in the 19th century, people could read newspapers at night in the light of the auroras there. (National Geographic) - that sounds like they could be really bright, too

[Advent]

Well, at least in that case we could have one big Earth Hour event.

[Pa'li Makto]

If that could happen, we could do that every month or so.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by auroraglacialis

AFAIK the only real working tactics is to take the grid down intentionally after a prediction was made by solar observations - that would save the transformators and they could go back online after a day or so. So that is the plan - hope for good predictions.
Broadband communication may go down even faster - sattellites you cannot just put into a hangar...

Oh and I just read that during the Carrington event in the 19th century, people could read newspapers at night in the light of the auroras there. (National Geographic) - that sounds like they could be really bright, too

And the master electronic engineer and IT technician knows this.... How?

[Human No More]

As I said (but was ignored since I don't like to complain about how "technology is evil"), broadband is not routed through satellites because of the latency, cost and bandwidth issues, but it uses submarine cables. Satellites are used for phone, TV and military networks, as well as things like weather and GPS. Satellites are already hardened against the large amount of radiation they receive, as well as temperature variances and just about any other environmental condition that may plausibly be encountered in space.
Any claim things will be overly disrupted on the level you mentioned is pure fantasy.

[Isard]

And before you go on and on about the US military being helpless without satellites, they seeded low orbit with billions of metallic needles decades ago to reflect signals around the globe. Satellites are just a little more reliable.

[auroraglacialis]

Ah good, so these scaremongering scientists, engineers and NASA people are wrong. Good to know. So I can then enjoy the auroras during the temporary blackouts and then go back to facebook and post the pictures of them. Phew - and I was scared I could not share the images then with all the world because the lifeline of the internet would be down.

[Isard]

They're not nessicarily wrong, they just don't know what they're talking about. They know there will be a strong solar cycle, but they know next to nothing about the global electrical grid OR ISP's (backbone of the internet). They're making the rather retarded assumption that nobody has planned, or prepared for heavy solar activity, then people like you run around screaming that the sky is falling to spread your fear laden messages.

Pants on head retarded all around.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Isard

They're not nessicarily wrong, they just don't know what they're talking about. They know there will be a strong solar cycle, but they know next to nothing about the global electrical grid OR ISP's (backbone of the internet). They're making the rather retarded assumption that nobody has planned, or prepared for heavy solar activity, then people like you run around screaming that the sky is falling to spread your fear laden messages.

Pants on head retarded all around.

Exactly.

Let me explain it in webcomic form:


Certainly, there may be some issues, but any kind of global disaster is nothing but false hope on the part of those who want it, fuelled by misunderstanding (remember the whole 'vaccines cause autism' thing that has caused literal epidemics in several countries and was subsequently proven completely false?)

[auroraglacialis]

Oh, that is nice then. These engineers, university professors and scientists are just a bunch or retards who know not what they are talking about. Ok, I get it. I am sure a Walmart (administration?) employee knows more than these stupid scientists who are all just out to take away our luxuries anyways, just so they can sell their expensive supposedly world saving stuff.

Ah well, if that is so, then there's no problem and I am just looking forward to a marvellous light show. I hope that maybe at least for some minutes the lights will go out so I can see it. And of course make a crappy video with my cellphone that I can then post on youtube or failbook

[Advent]

Originally Posted by auroraglacialis

Oh, that is nice then. These engineers, university professors and scientists are just a bunch or retards who know not what they are talking about. Ok, I get it. I am sure a Walmart (administration?) employee knows more than these stupid scientists who are all just out to take away our luxuries anyways, just so they can sell their expensive supposedly world saving stuff.

I think the scientists interpret it in the worst case scenario intentionally, so we're ready for whatever might happen.

[auroraglacialis]

I think the scientists interpret it in the worst case scenario intentionally, so we're ready for whatever might happen.

Yeah right. That is why the reality of climate change effects usually are happening above the projected impacts coming out of climate science. (e.g.: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0818132221.htm)
But yes of course - scientists will usually tell what will happen if nothing is done - because obviously the goal is to make people do something. The reason why the predictions of biologists in the 1980ies that the forests of Europe will die from acid rain did not come true was that people acted upon that and stopped making acid rain. With climate change, this is not happening. I dont know if upon these predictions about the soalr flares people will come and create safeguards for their technology that could protect it - maybe but maybe not.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by auroraglacialis

Oh, that is nice then. These engineers, university professors and scientists are just a bunch or retards who know not what they are talking about. Ok, I get it. I am sure a Walmart (administration?) employee knows more than these stupid scientists who are all just out to take away our luxuries anyways, just so they can sell their expensive supposedly world saving stuff.

No, I was calling your running around telling people the sky is falling pants on head retarded. Scientists(who spent anywhere from 8-12 years learning about the natural world) have predicted that there will be a strong solar cycle, still with me? They know, that unprotected transformers are vulnerable to strong solar cycles, therefore, they make the connection that strong cycles will knock out the power grid.

Now the Master Electrical engineers (who've spend decades to earn the title "Master Engineer") Know this too, they've known for years that their work will be vulnerable to radiation and the like, so preemptive measures are taken. However, they don't have any reason to trumpet it to the world, ho hum, crisis averted, bring on the next one. Same thing for IT professionals (of which I can almost count myself among. just another semester or two) have been preparing for. No reason to announce to the world that the internet wont die, because guess what they pay them for?

This stuff has been in place already, we're prepared. What do you think we've been doing for the past 3-4 decades?


Anything beyond this is trolling, back to your cave.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by auroraglacialis

Yeah right. That is why the reality of climate change effects usually are happening above the projected impacts coming out of climate science.
But yes of course - scientists will usually tell what will happen if nothing is done - because obviously the goal is to make people do something. The reason why the predictions of biologists in the 1980ies that the forests of Europe will die from acid rain did not come true was that people acted upon that and stopped making acid rain. With climate change, this is not happening. I dont know if upon these predictions about the soalr flares people will come and create safeguards for their technology that could protect it - maybe but maybe not.

What, so there's no acid rain now?

Wow, I thought you'd know that better. A reduction in emissions per capita can still be an increase, and you are ignoring the fact that MANY predictions are still patently false and occasionally not even based on simulations or extrapolations.

As Isard said, if every mitigated disaster was announced, there would be nothing else. Newspapers would be full of 'newly opened bridge will not collapse' and 'minor building fire will not spread to rest of country'. Occasionally, a potential scenario gets blown way out of proportion and people pick up on it, only for there to be no or negligible effect. Remember the Y2K scare? Yet (nearly) nothing happened, and many of the people who believed it would believed things that were impossible, such as planes crashing simply because the date was displayed in an incorrect format (as it is, many non-compliant systems simply displayed '19100' and continued as before, because 99 is not a value that will cause an integer overflow, as anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of binary arithmetic could tell you).

[auroraglacialis]

Originally Posted by Human No More

What, so there's no acid rain now?

There is considerably less acid rain in central Europe now compared to the time the dire predictions of the death of most forests were made, yes. It is not zero and trees are still dying but after the wakeup call made by scientists back then, policy changed, cars and coal plants were equipped with filters and scrubbers and the crisis was averted. Sometimes this really does work. Averting a disaster makes it to the news if there was at least some time when the threat was there for real. And from that article (and others on the topic) I read that at least large parts of the electric grid in the US are still vulnerable unless they can go in shutdown after a good prediction of a coming storm.

I give you that part on the broadband. I was thinking too much about remote location internet and such. So I guess transoceanic glassfibre cables are not that susceptible.

Originally Posted by Isard

No, I was calling your running around telling people the sky is falling pants on head retarded.

No - read your post.
"They're not nessicarily wrong, they just don't know what they're talking about. [...] They're making the rather retarded assumption...."

This stuff has been in place already, we're prepared. What do you think we've been doing for the past 3-4 decades?

Honestly? Having a big party.

Anything beyond this is trolling, back to your cave.

Oh thank you, that is a nice tone. Did the level already drop that fast again, hum? So we are at "retard", "troll" and "back to your cave" in this discussion already? Nice!