A Short Lesson For Consideration on Religious Persecuation

[Pa'li Makto]

I sure didn't say that people were..It just gets me sometimes that people can get spirituality and religion mixed up..

Moco: Are you referring to anyone in particular?

Ashen Key: No problem. I suppose you highlighted the link between religion and spirituality but I think that's where the link ends.

[Moco Loco]

Nearly everyone who has explained why we need a Spirituality subforum. I can go through and name names, but I'd prefer not to create a ****storm in here, also it would take a long time

Also, it's the title of this thread.

[Mika]

I'm not going to defend the Baha'i Faiths stance on certain issues, as though it is my roots and still my spiritual source, yet like any believer in Spirituality, there are a lot of unanswered questions, that I leave between each individual and their connection to whom or whatever they feel is their Divine Essence or Creator.

I for one at a personal level, and not only understanding things from a Spiritual view, also accept the Scientific .. for the Faith itself declares that Science and Religion (or Spirituality) are the same wings of one bird!

Science itself has put forth a strong position on the 'normalcy' of Homosexuality particularly the well studied concept of a continuum, a range of sexual predispositions. And having many friends who have lived, loved, and walked along the range of the continuum, I whole heatedly support the Scientific findings and more so the stories of love and commitment that couples of the same or opposite genders have shared. That love is not defined by what goes on in the bedroom, but the exchange between human hearts and souls, that is not limited nor confined by 'social' boundaries.

To me 'wisdom' and maturity require discernment and perception, that is outside the 'physical' definitions. The purpose of Religion, is to help us question and seek the better answers than the ones we are given. The difference is that I appreciate the gift contained in the challenge to our sensibilities, instead of just being one that automatically subscribes or defies it!

To be a true mystic, sage, shaman, or spiritualist is to have neither fear of 'hell' nor hope in heaven! But only intuition and consciousness to guide!

[Moco Loco]

Originally Posted by Mika

The difference is that I appreciate the gift contained in the challenge to our sensibilities, instead of just being one that automatically subscribes or defies it!

You have every right to this, but just the same, we have every right to disagree. You shouldn't imply that those of us who are agnostic or atheist (secular) are immature for questioning spirituality.

[Advent]

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

You have every right to this, but just the same, we have every right to disagree. You shouldn't imply that those of us who are agnostic or atheist (secular) are immature for questioning spirituality.

Perhaps, but I have never really seen religious or spiritual people questioning or antagonizing science. This is the main reason why some users want a theology sub forum - they don't like defending their beliefs in every thread they state them in. I can fully understand that, and I would hope that the secular or agnostic people here can as well.

[iron_jones]

Originally Posted by Advent

Perhaps, but I have never really seen religious or spiritual people questioning or antagonizing science. This is the main reason why some users want a theology sub forum - they don't like defending their beliefs in every thread they state them in. I can fully understand that, and I would hope that the secular or agnostic people here can as well.

True dat.

[Tsyal Makto]

Originally Posted by Advent

Perhaps, but I have never really seen religious or spiritual people questioning or antagonizing science. This is the main reason why some users want a theology sub forum - they don't like defending their beliefs in every thread they state them in. I can fully understand that, and I would hope that the secular or agnostic people here can as well.

Mhmm.

[Moco Loco]

Originally Posted by Advent

Perhaps, but I have never really seen religious or spiritual people questioning or antagonizing science. This is the main reason why some users want a theology sub forum - they don't like defending their beliefs in every thread they state them in. I can fully understand that, and I would hope that the secular or agnostic people here can as well.

The point I have made over and over is that you are allowed to question it, question everything, or anything you want, and that should not be discouraged. However, no one antagonizes anyone. Just because I say "I believe x y and z because I have evidence" does not mean I am attacking spirituality or anything else. It means I am stating my opinion and giving a reason for it. No one should have to feel like they must defend themselves in such circumstances, EVER. So no, I am afraid I cannot understand what you mean.

I understand the desire to do away with a debate every day, but you can't push the blame all on the Secular side.

[Advent]

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

The point I have made over and over is that you are allowed to question it, question everything, or anything you want, and that should not be discouraged. However, no one antagonizes anyone. Just because I say "I believe x y and z because I have evidence" does not mean I am attacking spirituality or anything else. It means I am stating my opinion and giving a reason for it. No one should have to feel like they must defend themselves in such circumstances, EVER. So no, I am afraid I cannot understand what you mean.

Very well. If you can't understand what I'm saying, I will not force my point into your head. But I still see antagonistic behavior on a regular basis. Logic and science is used every day, so I see nothing wrong with letting the spiritual/religious people have a sub forum of their own.

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

I understand the desire to do away with a debate every day, but you can't push the blame all on the Secular side.

I had no desire to do so. I have many friends who are secular, and I myself am both religious and spiritual. But science and logic, until disproved, cannot be persecuted in any way. Religion and spirituality are often persecuted, and with no real reason in doing so. This is not to say religion or spirituality or innocent of wrongdoing either, to be sure. But at this current point, I wouldn't say both sides are at an equilibrium.

If I had my way, everyone could just believe what they wanted to believe, and that would be it. Unfortunately, this view goes against human nature, it seems, and here we are. Experiencing division.

[Aquaplant]

Originally Posted by Advent

Perhaps, but I have never really seen religious or spiritual people questioning or antagonizing science. This is the main reason why some users want a theology sub forum - they don't like defending their beliefs in every thread they state them in. I can fully understand that, and I would hope that the secular or agnostic people here can as well.

Then why must people be actively defending their beliefs? It's not like they are being harassed or physically threatened because of them. People are just so uptight about their beliefs that any negative word will cause a huge uproar. Science on the other hand doesn't need that sort of emotional attachment, because it's based of objective things we can all agree on.

People treat beliefs as some sort of entity to be respected, but why is that? Why must people insist on getting special treatment just because they choose to believe in something that others don't?

[Theorist]

Originally Posted by Aquaplant

Then why must people be actively defending their beliefs? It's not like they are being harassed or physically threatened because of them. People are just so uptight about their beliefs that any negative word will cause a huge uproar. Science on the other hand doesn't need that sort of emotional attachment, because it's based of objective things we can all agree on.

People treat beliefs as some sort of entity to be respected, but why is that? Why must people insist on getting special treatment just because they choose to believe in something that others don't?

I think it goes back to the basic principal of respecting others.

You kinda just try not to offend people, and realize that when you say things, there's a good chance people might take offense to them, and you might think it's dumb they take offense, but there's probably a good reason they do.

[Moco Loco]

And if they do, there's something called an apology you can use. Very helpful when it comes to admitting you were wrong to hurt someone's feelings, very helpful when it comes to withdrawing an insulting remark. Very helpful for making things right

[Advent]

In an ideal world, yes. But not everyone might have the same beliefs, and coupled with the human objective to compete for supremacy, people clash over these beliefs, and that is usually inevitable. Thus the need for Secular/Spiritual subforums now.

[Moco Loco]

We may as well do our best to make it as ideal as we can. Again, this victim stance many have taken is generally hard for me to understand since most (possibly all) of this occurred before I joined, and I personally have never even come close to insulting anyone without apologizing immediately after.