Bringing People Together

[caveman]

Originally Posted by ColonelMilesQuaritch

Now thats a potent mix, lets make this happen, lets bond and extend the community, reaching to more people than before.

Read the official announcement here:
http://www.tree-of-souls.com/announcement.php?f=21&a=4

It's not really "a potent mix". It's the opposite. Its a seperation. A seperation of a bunch of great people. It's really sad, that it came to this. I don't blame anyone, and I'm not trying to demote this site. What I'm saying is I think this "solution" only made matters worse, and I hate to see it this way.

I've heard a lot of this talk about how great having two forums would be. I've heard a lot about how splitting in two would somehow "strengthen" the communities. Honestly I havent seen any "strengthening" "bonding" or general bettering of any community. None of this makes sense to me. How a bunch of loving and great people could divide. Again, I'm not blaming you guys. I'm not trying to bring up old problems and start fights. What I'm trying to do is simple, yet seemingly impossible. I'm trying to bring people together. Despite differences, despite conflicts, we are all great people. So what are we doing apart?

It may seem impossible, or too late to go back, to unite forums, but I believe otherwise. I believe we are all fantastic people capable of coming together with full love and acceptence, despite old problems. I believe we are fully capable of finding real solutions to such problems.

I only know a little about what happened with the break up, and honestly, I don't care. I think it's all in the past, and its time to move on. Time to bring people together.

You might say there's no need for a unification. That people have a choice which forum to come to. But looking around this thread, so many people stay here and won't post on the old one. I just don't understand the point of it all? I mean, what's the point of making a new forum if all the discussions are the nearly the same? If the reason for this forum was a stronger community, then that is the reason for unifying one. If the reason was because of the admins, then we have things to work out, but they can be worked out.

I know what you all want - that "old avatarforums" feel. I felt it go away a little too. But then I looked closer, and on a couple threads, one of which, the PAD thread, there's 5-6 awesome people there. They cheer me up, they help me, I help them, its really a fantastic community. Then I look here, and there's more awesome people under the same thread. So I wonder, why aren't we together?

Again, this isn't to blame anyone. I don't care about the blame or who did what or whatever. I just want to see people together. "people together" - is that a bad thought? What do you guys think? Because I think this seperation is really contradicting the spirit of Avatar. It contradicts what brought us all here in the first place - wanting a community like the na'vi. That's what brought dreamers and idealists from all around the world together. Its really something powerful. So is the reason to stay seperated more powerful than the force that brought us together?

I hope I leave you with something to think about. "bringing people together" Thats the idea. You are all wonderful people, and honestly, I miss you. I like what you have here, this site. It's nice, and I like it maybe better than AF, but I'm not looking to join two sites. I think we're better than that. I'm obsessed with the idea of bringing everyone together in the same house. It's something that would really be amazing. Rarely is such a thing accomplished -people together with full love despite conflict. Anyways, thanks for the read...

CVMN

[Stanley_9875]

I understand what you mean ma tsmukan. I love it here, but I still feel guilt every day for leaving behind the AF. I wish that things haddent gotten this bad. It tears me up inside, leaves my soul restless. I wish I could participate in both forums I honestly do, but time permits me from it. I was also thinking about this today, a wave of guilt of me leaving people behind on the AF, so much guilt I wrote a letter in my notebook writing an apology letter to everyone on my friends list I will write on my laptop and send to everyone on my friends list (it's about 3 notebook pages). I really wish we could be a big family again. Because the AF is where it all started for me. So many memories happened there, I participated in a lot of projects, talked with amazing people and such, but things started falling apart and believe me I cried for a long time about this mess. I know that both forums came to an agreeement and such, but we're still seperate. It's not he same. Dear Lord I love this place, and there are numerous amazig people here, and i want to say from the bottom of my heart I hope and pray that we can work something out. Does anyone have any ideas or comments regardig this whole thing? Please dot read this and think it doesn't concern you or you don't feel your input won't be welcome or will go unnoticed, please write whatever you feel about this. I love all of yu so much, and although I don't know what's happening over at the AF right now, all I know is that I miss a lot of people over there too and I'm sure a lot of you do too. Let's see what we can work out. Please comment

[Vauktu]

Originally Posted by Stanley_9875

Please comment

You may be interested in reading caveman's original post on AF:
http://www.avatar-forums.com/general...-solution.html

[ZenitYerkes]

I believe this community formed out of the skin problem, since the new admins of AF wouldn't change the current look for the of one, and keept the ads (something I think they did without asking); a some decided to bring back the old forums (hence why you can see in HumanNoMore's banner "We listen to the People").

I think it's real sad that things turned up like this too, but this is one of the things that cannot be undone. I do not expect AF turning back to its previous state, it's too much work to be done and few people willing to actually do it, mostly because it's a real difficult task to downgrade the forums.

Anyway, I still have hope.

[zongtseng]

I have to be honest. When we were first starting to set this up, I said, more than once, "but I still hope this isn't necessary." I did not want this to happen, but there was little to no response to the problems at first, and, IMO, there are still problems that just aren't being addressed regarding VB4 and the style and it's many bugs and appearance problems.

Would a reunification be the ideal outcome? Sure it would. But there are some very big problems behind that. First, and foremost, AF is now a business, and is run like one. That is not a flame on the administration there, it's just a fact. Everyone has to make a living, and that's fine. AF has a single owner. The way ToS is set up, it is literally collectively owned, and we operate solely on donations of time and money by staff and members. That is a huge difference, and one I see no way to reconcile.

Of course, if by reuniting you mean simply shutting ToS down and going back to AF the way it is now, I think very few here would be happy with that, and many would feel quite betrayed, and I'm not speaking of the staff, but the members.

Let me finally say, what I have said before both on AF, and here, as well as on IRC. AF quite possibly saved my sanity. It surely helped to cope with the massive punch that PAD hit me with. I am still thankful for it's presence every day. The break killed me as much as it did anyone. I will never say anything is impossible, but it would take some sort of action on AF's part at this point, and I just don't think that will happen.

[Eltu]

ToS is not the same and is not trying to be the same as AF.

ToS is a considerably smaller forum with the members much more involved in the administration work, which AF is not and cannot be - I am not saying it is a bad thing, but that's how it is.

[Human No More]

I replied to your PM about this before (actually two replies).

ToS is not AF, as Eltu and zongtseng have both said. We did what we had to. The only reason we even came up with the idea was because someone had to. The AF theme change REALLY wasn't the main issue, even if it worked as a catalyst. This was always eventually going to happen. I can't remember how long you were around on AF for, but AF at the time of all this was a completely different place to the AF we knew. I'm sure it's even further now.

Any kind of reunification will never happen, I can tell you that now. AF and ToS are completely different sites, differently run. Anyway, a reunion would invove what exactly? Just saying 'go back to AF and forget about what we accomplished here'? I would run ToS MYSELF, on my own, before I let that happen. Nobody is saying you can't use both if you want to, but to many of us here, there's very little on AF for us any more. If you don't want to be on two, you will go towards one or the other, and that's your choice. As it is right now, as zongtseng said, AF is being run as a business. Maybe it even has a place in the Avatar community in that, for people who liked Avatar but weren't really affected by it like the original userbase were, as painful as it is for me to say that.

Go where you want, we won't stop you from making your own decision, but ToS is here to stay.

[RizZy]

I don't see there being anyway to "unite" the 2 forums into 1, theres to much gone on between those that run ToS & AF in one way or another that I don't see those differences ever really being solved anymore.

Like others have said I'm gratefull to AF & those on there that helped me through PAD & gave me somewhere to be with like minded people, but things have changed alot since then.

[Fkeu'itan]

I personally believe a reunification is possible, but it will be a long time coming and it won't be easy. It's only been two weeks since 'the incident' (this is how I refer to what happened) and this community has flourished, brimming with people who were intensely affected by Avatar.

For me the only option for unification would be to shut down both forums, leave the past behind and begin a whole new collaborative forum. Otherwise there will always be arguments concerning the 'base' that the unification was built on. However at the current moment, and indeed, perhaps at all in the future, this is not a viable solution.

I'm perfectly fine with having 2 forums. Yes the community feels a little divided between them and I may be a whole lot more active on ToS nowadays, (something that still makes me sad, thinking about all the great new people I could be meeting) but I still drop by AF to check for any interesting posts or updates, especially in the fan-fic/fan-art section.

For me, ToS now has something that AF lost a while ago, a sense of a tight-knit and supportive family, run solely on generosity and love. I feel like an alien on AF now, scared to let my emotions flow because of some of the people who are there now. ToS is a place I can let it all come out and know that I will still be treated kindly and supported and I, in turn will do the same.

[Stanley_9875]

See for me I didn't know a lot of what went on "behind walls" I'll put it with admins and such on the AF, all I could see was suddenly I'm gone for a day, I come back and next thing I know the skin looks like a Terminator version of the AF, and constant ADs everywhere. Suddenly when I log on, I felt a little... Uneasy i'll put it. But one thing I also noticed was the way he community changed. People weren't talking as nicely to each other, almost every thread contained an argument, or an innapropriate remark and such. I just think some people joined who didn't quite See the movie as a lot of us here did, and I'm sure numerous people still on the AF, which is why I feel a load of guilt still, and I can't really do much about it, but i still want to send a letter to those people.

And thank you everyone for writing your responses

[rapunzel77]

Why are we still talking about this? The AF and TOS are different forums. I see that the moment I log onto the AF now. I hardly post there. I enjoy the positive and joyful atmosphere on here. This forum was created with a cost. It had to be done. Lets put the past behind us. What is done is done and I don't think there is anything that can be done to change what is happened.

[Vauktu]

Originally Posted by rapunzel77

What is done is done and I don't think there is anything that can be done to change what is happened.

Rapunzel is right. The forum is here and there is nothing that can be done. It's not going to be shut down. Some people here rely on this site to remain sane, just like some people rely on AF. You may be able to convince others to visit AF more, but not enough to have this forum closed.

[caveman]

Friends, a few things. First, Thank you for your thoughts. Second, I'm not trying to be mean, and I hope I don't come off mean, but I honestly don't care about the state of the forum right now, as in, what Avatarforums is like. I don't care about what happened, or what continues to happen. I care about what could happen. Like my last post "Bringing people together". That's my mission. That's what I'm asking you. I'm not asking if Tree of Souls will close and everyone join Avatarforums. Originally, that was my intent, but I've focused more about what I really want, to bring people together. Can we all agree that would be a good thing? I'm not even thinking about how this would happen (at least not now). All I'm thinking about is all the like-minded people in one place. This leads to my third point. Tree of Souls does not necessarily need to close. People seem to assume that is all I want, but it's not. I understand what you have here. Its great. I love it. I don't want to see it go. So now I leave you with one question:

Do you think we should bring people together?

I'm not asking about how. This is all I'm asking, plain and simple. Do you like that idea of unity. Not meaning close one forum over the other. Just, in general. You could apply that question to any scenerio, and that's the neutral thought I'm looking for. If we can all agree on this one idea, regardless of these forums, then we can slowly start working out a solution, whatever that may be. For now, just looking for your imput on this one blind idea.

[Vauktu]

Originally Posted by caveman

Do you think we should bring people together?

People prefer one forum over the other for a reason. That's the problem. I see no way in making people go to a forum which they do not wish to be on.

[Wanderling]

Caveman, I agree. I would love to see the people on both forums united once again. But I agree with everyone's points about the forums having seemingly irreconcilable differences at this point.

I still visit both forums, but I honestly have such a hard time physically looking at the AF style that it takes a lot of the enjoyment away from being there. And I like this community, here, the whole feeling of this place and the warmth of the people. My heart aches to know that what we had will never be as it once was. The two forums are run fundamentally differently now. I feel like I can trust this place. I don't feel that on AF anymore; anything can change at any moment, for any reason.

Aside from the forum differences, though, we *can* be a united community even in two places. It's all about the people. Where there's respect and understanding, we will be united in one community, regardless of where we spend most of our time online. I really feel that way. I think we need to hold that sense of community in our hearts, instead of focusing too much on physical location. Just my thoughts.