Obama's Health Care Plan.

[rapunzel77]

Originally Posted by Gunny

I like this quote from a friend lol, "A health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed... by a country that's broke. What could possibly go wrong?"

LOL, that's a funny quote .

Sovereign: I agree with most of your points. We are dealing with a complex beast and I know it is probably not feasible to kick all the "bums" out of congress but it is frustrating when it seems that these politicians do not have the best interests of the country but seemed to be bought and paid for by special interest groups and corporations.

I see your point when you talk about not trusting the private sector as much as the government because of their tendency to become corrupt. You are also right that the corporations have been caring more about getting short term profits instead of working to ensure that the company can be successful in the long term. That is why many of them are hurting now. The bubbles that burst in the late 80's with the S&L scandals, the late 90's/2000's with the Dot-com bubble, and now the housing bust is just the icing on the cake for what will come. I fear that there are more bubbles that will be burst.

The same is true for the government. I totally agree that we never should have gone to Iraq. Going to Afghanistan made more sense because there were actual Al'Quada camps there. You also make a good point about the top things that our country pays for is stuff that no one wants touched. I'm concerned that since we are $12 trillion in debt and counting up that we can't afford this healthcare law. We simply can't afford it.

[Unil_mi_tokx]

I haven't had time to read every word on the previous page. Good debate so far. I'll admit that I don't know all the details of this bill (or was bill) so I guess I'm just prejudice about it. I'm not a supporter. It just seems too shady. The stuff below was written by a republican so it is all biased but the points are true. Citation is at the bottom.

• Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the government option!
• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesn't have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.

What's Really in Obama's Health Care Reform Bill - A Plain English Translation

[Sovereign]

Unil_mi_tokx, I hate to bash sources here but if you read carefully the "original" source (from the one you posted) is none other than "FreeRepublic.com." I'm not saying that the above is not true (I don't have time at this moment to look up all those pages, but I will soon). What I am going to assert, however, is that FreeRepublic is far from unbiased and to my knowledge plays fast and loose with the truth.

Ever heard of "Freepers" or "Freeped Poll?" They're not exactly the most honest and ideology-free of people.

Like I said, I will look into all these later, but for now I don't believe any of it. Yet.

[Unil_mi_tokx]

I don't doubt that the truth has been stretched. I mean, it does start getting a little overheated at the end. However, I'm just saying that if the summaries of the pages listed above are true, some of those things scare me.

[Sovereign]

So far looking bad for Mr. Freeper. Out of the first five, 4/5 are flat-out false (and inflammatory to boot). One is ambiguous (more on that when I make my final post).

[Unil_mi_tokx]

I figured as much. I'm being honest that I really don't know much about it. Which is bad because considering the law affects pretty much everyone, we should know exactly all what it entails. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure 85% of Congress doesn't even know what it says either. I look forward to your final post.

I am actually concerned that the government will end up turning this country into a socialistic one. No offense to those who live in one, but with leaders like Obama in office, things could get out of hand when it comes down to how much "rationing of health benefits" they decide to impose.

[Human No More]

That certainly looks hugely exaggerated, just from a quick read through, without even knowing anything about the site. they aren't stupid, I'm sure they looked at existing healthcare systems that work (e.g. the NHS) in designing their system.

[Sovereign]

*drum roll*

Mr. Freeper has a score of 46 demonstrated LIES and FALSEHOODS, 4 things that are PARTIALLY TRUE (but either contain inflammatory false statements or are deliberate misinterpretations to build his pathetic case) and ZERO statements that are fully true on their own.

Here's the text I'm basing my analysis on. Note: I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, etc. etc. If I screw up, point to the section of the bill you believe I've misinterpreted. Just because I say “FALSE” does not necessarily mean it isn’t in the bill—it just means that I didn’t find any reference to it on the page that it was alleged to be located on. If it is there, point out the correct page, quote the bill, and I will edit this post.

• Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the government option!
FALSE. I cannot find any reference to required insurance. There is an insurance mandate which kicks in FY2014, but that's not on page 16 either. There is also no "government" (public) option in the bill. It was removed from the original House bill. Freeper needs to learn how to read (if he's looking at the final bill) or specify which bill he is looking at (if he's trying to pass off an old bill as this one to scare people).

• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
FALSE. At least the assertion that this is on p22. Not reading the whole bill (906 pages).

• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
AMBIGUOUS, LEANING FALSE on the assertion that there is flat-out mention of rationing in the bill. “to the extent feasible and appropriate, enable determination of an individual’s eligibility and financial responsibility for specific services prior to or at the point of care” may be interpreted as “rationing.” To those who complain of government rationing, I ask, what have you to say about the fact that healthcare is already rationed in the private market based on ability to pay? The only way to avoid the private sector’s rationing is the “ER Plan” which costs billions every year.

• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
FALSE . The text on p29-30 refers to implementation of electronic standards meant to simplify healthcare administration.

• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
FALSE. No such commissioner exists either on this page or in the entire bill by this name.

• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
FALSE. This was never in the bill to begin with. Hispanic groups such as La Raza threatened to block the bill at the last minute because there was no provision for illegals. In fact, illegal immigrants are barred from purchasing insurance from the Exchanges even with their own money, unsubsidized.

• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
FALSE. Nowhere in the bill are “National ID Healthcards” mentioned. Page 58 deals with the creation of Health Exchanges established by the states.

• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
FALSE. That page covers exemptions from the insurance mandate. The government shall “establish and make available by electronic means a calculator to determine the actual cost of coverage after the application of any premium tax credit under section 36B of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and any costsharing reduction under section 1402” but that’s the only reference to electronics I can find.

• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
FALSE. This page covers how people can enroll in Exchanges and forces Members of Congress plus their staff to receive benefits packages only from the Exchanges or other provisions of the bill. If you have a plan that meets Minimum Coverage, keep it! If you want to change plans and enroll in something offered through an Exchange, you can. In fact…
“(D) MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THE EXCHANGE.—
(i) REQUIREMENT.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law, after the effective date of this subtitle,
the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are—
(I) created under this Act (or an amendment
made by this Act); or
(II) offered through an Exchange established
under this Act (or an amendment made by this
Act).
(ii) DEFINITIONS.—In this section:
(I) MEMBER OF CONGRESS.—The term ‘‘Member
of Congress’’ means any member of the House
of Representatives or the Senate.
(II) CONGRESSIONAL STAFF.—The term ‘‘congressional staff’’ means all full-time and parttime employees employed by the official office of a Member of Congress, whether in Washington, DC or outside of Washington, DC.”

Looks like the politicians applied the law to themselves after all! Before saying “I’m sure there’s a loophole,” find the loophole. Don’t just try to play on suspicions that “everyone hates the government so they’ll swallow this without me backing it up.”

• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
TRUE based on personal knowledge, but not mentioned on this page. In order to participate in Exchanges, a plan must meet a certain standard, but beyond that it is entirely up to the company. This is why there was a huge fuss over abortion because plans taking money through Exchanges cannot use the funds collected through federal means to pay for abortions. There must be a separate fund entirely consisting of money collected directly from private citizens by the company, not the government.

• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
FALSE. The reason insurance companies participate is for their own benefit, not by some mandate. They want those 32 million additional customers, and if they don’t participate then their competitors will get them.

• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
FALSE. There has been a requirement for translation services for legal residence whose first language is not English, but there is no such mandate on this page or in this bill.

• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
FALSE. There is no Government-run Healthcare Plan! There is no mention of ACORN or Americorps in the whole bill!

• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
FALSE. This page covers the “Study on Affordable coverage” and begins “Section 1402 – Reduced Cost-Sharing for Individuals Enrolling in Qualified Health Plans.”

• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
FALSE FALSE FALSE! For the third time, there is no government-run healthcare plan!

• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
FALSE. The government does set rates for Medicare reimbursement but not the wages of doctors. The page actually covers the limitations on the “uninsured” tax (how much you must pay if you carry no insurance).

• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
FALSE. There. Is. No. Public. Plan.

• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
FALSE. Everyone must carry insurance (in 2014) but no mention is made of part-time employees or their families. This page covers “Maintenance of Minimum Essential Coverage.”

• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
FALSE. FFS! NO! Just. No.

• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
FALSE. See above! However, employers who offer no plan (private plans, ahem), do pay a tax.

• Page 167: Any individual who doesn't have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
PARTIALLY TRUE. You will pay a tax if you do not carry an acceptable insurance plan by government standards, but the tax is not 2.5% of income. See pages 126-131 of the actual bill to learn more about the penalties for those who do not have insurance. The short version is that this tax shall be no more than $750.

[Sovereign]

• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
FALSE. Page 170 is full of technical corrections. There is a section about “lawfully residing in the United States” with regard to “Section 605 of Children’s Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act” but legal residents pay taxes.

• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
FALSE. The government already has a great deal of information on you as a citizen already (this started long before Obama, Bush and the current political mess, it’s called “the IRS”). There is no stipulation on this page which grants the government carte blanche access to everyone’s financial and “personal” records.

• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.
FALSE. No, Mr. Freeper, it really doesn’t say that. Please read the bill before making ridiculous accusations.

• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.
FALSE. Reductions in payments specified on this page reference “value-based incentive payments,” not Medicaid.

• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
FALSE. This page continues the discussion of “value-based incentive payments.” From personal knowledge (which may be wrong), payments to specialists are reduced for situations in which a regular doctor and specialist could perform the same test. The specialist received more under the old system simply because he or she is a specialist, not because specialized knowledge was required.

• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.
FALSE. The government will set reimbursement rates for those treating patients who are receiving benefits directly from the government, but that’s been the case forever when dealing with Medicare and Medicaid. The rates are abysmally low though, I’ll give opponents that. However, the AMA supported this legislation precisely because there was supposed to be a “doc fix” (either in this legislation or upcoming) which would prevent the otherwise-scheduled reimbursement rate cut.

• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
FALSE. The government mandates standards for private insurance. There may be parts in there about hospital Information Technology, but I’m not sure.

• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
FALSE. I’ve heard TV commercials claiming that “We’ll make sure the government reimburses you or the power chair is on us” but that’s not in this bill. Nor do I know how true those ads are either.

• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
FALSE. Again, the private sector already rations. It’s called money and quantity of which is used to purchase services. If you have sufficient money you can buy whatever care you want in the private market. There’s no mention of rationing on this page (or cancer patients for that matter).

I’ll freely admit the government will have to do some rationing somehow (perhaps limiting the number of times they reimburse for Procedure X) but I don’t know if that’s in this bill and rationing is a fact of life anyway. People just seem to think it’s “eviler” when the government does it as opposed to the rationing-by-price we encounter every day. That’s how markets work—by setting a price they limit how much of Good or Service A is purchased.

• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
FALSE. The government may “terminate an agreement with an ACO if it does not meet the quality performance standards established by the Secretary under subsection (b)(3)” but an ACO is an Accountable Care Organization (see page 277), not a hospital.

• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
FALSE. This page deals with how the government pays physicians and contains no punishments.

• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
FALSE. No prohibitions exist.

• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
FALSE. Discusses “presumed rate of utilization of imaging equipment.”

• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
FALSE. If I see one more BS line about ACORN I’m going to scream. This page covers a modification of the Social Security Act to permit a study of cancer hospitals.

• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
FALSE. There are nonbinding effectiveness studies in this bill, but they’re not on this page and there’s no forced rationing based on their outcomes. This page covers Medicare Advantage plans.

• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
PARTIALLY TRUE. The government won’t do that on this page (read the f---ing bill before spouting off, please, Mr. Freeper!) but the government does set standards for minimum care. Assuming that these standards apply to Medicare, then the privately-run Medicare Advantage plans could be disqualified for failure to meet standards. HMOs also have to meet standards.

This does bring up the question of what, exactly, “disqualify” means in this sense, but I’m not going to try to divine the motive of someone who on at least five separate occasions railed about a non-existent “public plan.”

• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
FALSE. This page deals with “drugs of clinical concern” (p353) and “Reducing Part D Premium Subsidy for High Income Beneficiaries.” I presume this is the “Trig Palin With Down Syndrome Won’t Get Anything from the Evil Government” argument. By “enroll” this might be the sixth(?) mention of the phantom public plan that only exists in the minds of paranoid Freepers, or it might refer to restrictions on private companies. Neither exist.

• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
FALSE. This committee does not exist in the bill, and the actual discussion on page 379 is inside-ball dealing with how the bill will be passed between the House and the Senate.

• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
FALSE. Palin’s Death Panels claim was false then, it is false now. The item that was originally there and monstrously distorted by people playing politics was a mandate that doctors should be paid by Medicare if their patients elect to receive end of life counseling. That is, if a patient who is on Medicare/Medicaid chooses to discuss with his or her doctor what to do at the end of his or her life, the doctor should be paid.

• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
FALSE. See above, and note lack of discussion of wills. No mention of the Estate Tax is to be found. In fact, the only two mentions of “estate” in the entire bill exempt them from a tax (p752, 753).

• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
FALSE. No such list exists, here or in any part of the bill.

• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
FALSE. No such mention of government involvement. On p76, “F) PROTECTING ACCESS TO END OF LIFE CARE.—A community health insurance option offered under this section shall be prohibited from limiting access to end of life care.” That is the only mention of it in the bill.

• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
FALSE. Yet more delusional paranoia from the Freeper Universe. Page 429 discusses clinical preventative services. See all above discussions about end-of-life and other “pull the plug on granny” arguments.

• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
FALSE. See above. This is really getting old, making the same argument five times and it being false every single time.

• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
FALSE. *Screams* ACORN was not and is not in this bill. This page discusses a “PROGRAM FOR EDUCATION AND TRAINING IN PAIN CARE” and “FUNDING FOR CHILDHOOD OBESITY DEMONSTRATION
PROJECT.”

• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
FALSE. Real World Content: Health Education Centers.

• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
FALSE. The real text discusses the NURSING STUDENT LOAN PROGRAM and INVESTMENT IN TOMORROW’S PEDIATRIC HEALTHCARE WORKFORCE.

[Sovereign]

• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
FALSE. Page discusses grants and scholarships for training mid-career public and allied healthcare professionals, as well as funding for “National Health Service Corps.” No, that is not a conspiracy.

Yes, I know I started editorializing part way through. I'll be the first to admit when I get really angry, it can show. And I was really angry. Not because I fully support this bill, or because I think Obama is some kind of reincarnation of Jesus Himself.

I was (and am) angry because these "Freepers" not only seem to have way too much time but for someone who claimed to have "decode[d] the bill" he sure did a really, really s--tty job. None of the claims actually matched up to pages. If this bill is so evil, I'd also think he would have read the entire bill (which is 906 pages long). The evil wouldn't stop at page 500 Instead, he thought up every "evil" thing that was guaranteed to get the Freepers mad as hornets, fapping to their imagined righteousness against the imagined evil of Emperor Obama urinating on their imagined interpretation of the Constitution which holds everything Obama does is wrong.

I'm sorry for the crude imagery, but these people are, I will say, unequivocal sheep. They claim everyone else buys into all these huge conspiracies, then this "big reveal" comes out and is completely false. When you point this out, they invent new conspiracies as to why "they" are right and everyone else is "being deceived." Enough with the frakking false flag theories!

I'm not necessarily defending the bill (though many of its provisions make sense). I'm shooting down erroneous, deliberate falsehoods which appeal to fear and anger in an attempt to prevent someone from actually verifying their truth. Here, there is none to be found.

File this in the "Useless Freeper Crap" bin. This was never, ever intended to be an attack on Unil_mi_tokx. He is not the Mr. Freeper to which I refer. Mr. Freeper is that so-called "US Army Translator" who posted this garbage over at that site I won't dignify with a link, which was then linked to by a site Unil_mi_tokx was reading, who is completely innocent of this disgusting ignorance.

Case closed.

[ZenitYerkes]

Whoa...

Sovereign, you are GOOD at this!

[Human No More]

That...

...that was epic

[Sovereign]

That also only took me an hour and a half, max.

[Grif]

It's been hard keeping up with what is really included the health care bill, all the political struggle turned it's creation into a nightmare. Is it a step in the right direction? Yes. Is it perfect? Considering the sh*t it's gone through, probably not, but once all the dust has settled we will be able to see what it really is and improve it from there. Hopefully it will not turn into a storm again.


Unrelated:
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem.

[Unil_mi_tokx]

First of all, I bow to Sovereign. That was remarkable. In all fairness I will say, "I was wrong. Thank you for explaining it."

I really do not know everything about the bill. That was actually very educational. I do have some specific remarks...

• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
FALSE. There has been a requirement for translation services for legal residence whose first language is not English, but there is no such mandate on this page or in this bill.

Does this mean we can get this law translated into Na'vi?

• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
FALSE. Yet more delusional paranoia from the Freeper Universe. Page 429 discusses clinical preventative services. See all above discussions about end-of-life and other “pull the plug on granny” arguments.

While I certainly would hope that no one in the government would want to deliberately form legislation that gives them the ultimate verdict of someone's end-of-life state, the "pull the plug on granny" part made me laugh.

• Page 430: FALSE. See above. This is really getting old, making the same argument five times and it being false every single time.

Like I said in my first post, I'm not surprised that this is extremely biased. I did not realize exactly how waaaay off it was though.

I'm not necessarily defending the bill (though many of its provisions make sense). I'm shooting down erroneous, deliberate falsehoods which appeal to fear and anger in an attempt to prevent someone from actually verifying their truth. Here, there is none to be found.

OK, I agree. I don't necessarily like the concept of where this bill was heading. Yes it urges competition to keep the prices down, and the parts about private companies raising their standards to meet government regulations isn't a bad thing. That's actually good. The idea of government involvement in personal matters is a scary thought. The truth was extremely stretched in that, which I now I have proof of - thank you Sovereign. I'll just have to stick it to the other crazy republicans at the next tea party meeting.

This was never, ever intended to be an attack on Unil_mi_tokx. He is not the Mr. Freeper to which I refer. Mr. Freeper is that so-called "US Army Translator" who posted this garbage over at that site I won't dignify with a link, which was then linked to by a site Unil_mi_tokx was reading, who is completely innocent of this disgusting ignorance.

No offense taken. I'll have to be more discerning about some of those articles. I'll keep an eye out for Freeper.