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Old 09-09-2011, 08:31 PM
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Default Spirit names

Hello.
I am interested in if any of you have knowledge of their "spirit name". I believe that the world around us speaks to us and that human language is our interpretation of the way the world speaks. The world knows we are here, it tries to have a relationship with us and yes it speaks of us and to us. I think that from this maybe comes what indigenous people call our "spirit name". In indigenous cultures, often there are ceremonies or vision quests made to find this name or it is searched for by a shaman.
My personal story is, that I did not know what a spirit name is or that it does exist. Last year I was partaking in a sweat lodge ceremony lead by a native american shaman. It was overall a very interesting experience but to stay in context, there was a name that was resonating in my mind to the point that by the end of the ceremony I was mumbling that word. I do not want to share too much of this experience as it is kind of private and I will also not reveal the word, but in this year I learned of the concept of the spirit names and made the connection that this is what this word clearly was, because I knew it was a name, just that I always thought that it was some other persons name.

Now any of you who are also inclined to such things, do you have knowledge of your spirit name, if so, how did you get that knowledge and if not, do you think you will gain knowledge of it in the future? Do you desire so? What do you think about spirit names and what is the meaning and power of knowing this?

Thank you
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:53 PM
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Sorry, I didn't quite get: is it your guiding spirit's name - or your spiritual name? (or maybe I didn't get it at all... ) Like, Don Juan (the yaquí shaman, the teacher of Carlos Castaneda) never referred to peyote as such but rather to the spirit that was associated with the plant, & called this spirit Mescalito (teacher & protector, in his words) - with the deepest respect that a NA person of knowledge has towards the world. Or maybe it is not related to your question...
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  #3  
Old 09-09-2011, 10:44 PM
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Well it is a bit complicated. No it is not the name of a teacher plant like in the case of peyote. I can not really say there is a clear distinction between what one might call a vision guide and my vision self as we somehow were the same and that name was associated with that. Maybe I am stretching the limits of written communication here a bit

Maybe I should rather call it "true name", "inner name" or something like that. The name the spirits of the world would call me maybe. I am not sure myself, I just do not know enough about this except that some indigenous cultures, especially north american indians have such a concept that one has a "true" name, that is not simply given by someone because it sounds good or because it is the mothers name. I know that in some cultures, this name was found and then given by a shaman and it was a public name that this person got then, sometimes this was done very young, other times it was part of some later ceremony. In some cultures that name had to be found by oneself and was to be kept secret because the name holds power. So until I know more I will not speak this one in public

I dont know if I made things clearer or worse now

This is not exactly my world yet - I am learning still but this one was very strange because I was not aware of something, it still happened to me and only later I made that connection. Maybe I made the connection wrongly and it was the name of a guide really, I am not 100% sure, but I think the name is significant to me, it is the name the animate world calls me. I need to ponder this a bit, just wanted to ask if someone had experiences like this or has some knowledge of names that come within visions and that resonate deeply, or with the concept of the "spirit name" in general. I am new to the concept, so I'd like to learn.
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"Humans are storytellers. These stories then can become our reality. Only when we loose ourselves in the stories they have the power to control us. Our culture got lost in the wrong story, a story of death and defeat, of opression and control, of separation and competition. We need a new story!"
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Old 09-10-2011, 02:08 AM
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I would love to learn..I have to get some money and find a shaman first though.
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Old 09-10-2011, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auroraglacialis View Post
Maybe I should rather call it "true name", "inner name" or something like that. The name the spirits of the world would call me maybe. ...the name holds power.
aw, right, now I see. Yes, you managed to make it clearer Lucky you! I dont' know my "true name" or "spirit name" yet. Imho the reason is this: it would hold power & maybe I am not ready to know it yet... I hope to discover it one day though!

Have you seen the Tarot thread here on this Spirituality subforum? It's long but there is something about Master Teacher in the Wind Brother part. Hey, I guess I need one... my personal Mo'at.
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Knowledge is a chimera for beyond any knowledge there ever lies other knowledge that renders the previous knowledge false. (The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, The Unbeliever Vol.II- Stephen Donaldson)

What the bleep do we know!


I know only this:
Eywa has taken me on a ride...
... the one I don't want come back from
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  #6  
Old 09-10-2011, 08:26 AM
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I always cringe inf I read the words shaman and money in one sentence. Please - if you need the money in order to go somewhere, for the journey, then all right, If you need it to buy a book, also fine. Even if you'd like to prepare a little present that is all right, but if a shaman asks you for money in exchange for doing something like this, be VERY cauteous. There are too makny "Plastic shamans" out there who basically appropriate cultural concepts and traditions and try to sell them for money without really knowing what they are doing. I know that some things do cost money, so to bring a native american to Europe will cost some airplane tickets, if one does a ceremony that needs materials, like a pile of wood for a sweat lodge, that also costs money - so at times it is ok to give some money for these basic things, but not as a price for a shaman performing any ritual or ceremony.
We are so used to think that everything costs money these days, but spirituality is free and knowledge about it is given as a gift. This is what most indigenous peoples seem to say about us westerners learning about this - that money and spirituality do not mix. Besides - if someone does not charge you anything for what he does, he has no incentive at all to fabricate anything for you, right? If he gets money - he can tell you whatever you may seem to want to hear just to get his money. I think this is an almost certain way to be sure that someone is genuine - if from what he does for you there come no obligations for you - no need to pay money, visit followup seminars for money or anything like that.
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Stop terraforming Earth (wordpress)

"Humans are storytellers. These stories then can become our reality. Only when we loose ourselves in the stories they have the power to control us. Our culture got lost in the wrong story, a story of death and defeat, of opression and control, of separation and competition. We need a new story!"
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Old 09-10-2011, 09:05 AM
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Very true, but some workshops ect cost a fee to participate in. Also I would need money to travel as well.
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"The man who learns only what others know is as ignorant as if he learns nothing.
The treasures of knowledge are the most rare, and guarded most harshly."
-Chronicle of the First Age


"Try to see the forest through her eyes."

Réalisant mon espoir, Je me lance vers la gloire. Je ne regrette rien. (Making my hope come true, I hurl myself toward glory. I regret nothing.)
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Old 09-10-2011, 12:59 PM
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Hm... I watched this program a few years ago upon shamanism around the world. There was this camp that investigators went to, and found a tribe of people. They went to the shaman, and asked if they may get a reading of some sort.

The shaman took their reading, and offered them the ability to go further into it. He said that he would give them strength, and did a chant. I was fascinated by this. Except, until the shaman said "The strength only work when you hand over money."

I dislike this. As was said previously, shamanism enhanced by greed is like kindness motivated by rewards... It's really not the same. Again, as was said before; I'd understand if required materials were... a certain type of plant, and various other things. But money... I'd be very careful.

On the topic of the OP - I've not yet been told a spiritual name. I use 'Mune' but that's based upon English characters that I recognise. [Even though, Na'vi is a spoken language]

If I were to ever receive a spiritual name- It'd be one that cannot be pronounced, or spoken. It'd simply nest itself in my reality. Anything created by the spirit, I disagree would be in English, or German, or any language. These lines that form a readable code are man-made.

Well, that's my opinion, anyway.
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  #9  
Old 09-10-2011, 01:36 PM
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out of blue: I remembered a conversation between Carlos & Don Juan: Don Juan said that Mescalito told him "his special name" - not Don Juan's but the plant spirit's name so that Don Juan could call upon him when needed; something like a private email. Carlos asked what the name was & Don Juan replied that that he couldn't tell it: that particular name was for him alone, & Carlos would receive his "special name to call upon Mescalito" from him directly - when / if he is ready. - "And what do I know! Maybe he'll tell you his name is Jose!" (the old brujo liked to laugh so much).

So I don't know if a language is important. "This must feel inside".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pa'li Makto View Post
Very true, but some workshops ect cost a fee to participate in. Also I would need money to travel as well.
I guess it is justified^^ - especially about travelling. And a shaman ... it might be only a symbolic way to say "a person of knowledge". My homeopath (a former cardiologist, i.e. a medical professional) is my personal "Mo'at" in the sense of sharing knowledge - altho she charges for the visits as normal but the knowledge she shares (outside the treatment) is worth so much more.

All said, I agree that one must be careful.
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Knowledge is a chimera for beyond any knowledge there ever lies other knowledge that renders the previous knowledge false. (The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, The Unbeliever Vol.II- Stephen Donaldson)

What the bleep do we know!


I know only this:
Eywa has taken me on a ride...
... the one I don't want come back from

Last edited by apache_blanca; 09-10-2011 at 01:51 PM.
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  #10  
Old 09-13-2011, 05:25 PM
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WellI can imagine that the name would be one that cannot be spoken, but I'd say that it also could be one that can be. After all we are language persons and I would say that that name can be one that is at least within our understanding of language. Not a specific language like German or English, but a sound that we can make with our bodies.
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"Humans are storytellers. These stories then can become our reality. Only when we loose ourselves in the stories they have the power to control us. Our culture got lost in the wrong story, a story of death and defeat, of opression and control, of separation and competition. We need a new story!"
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Old 09-17-2011, 12:55 AM
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I don't know if I have a spirit name, as far as I know the traditions in my area do not recognise them. There are personal yoiks (wordless chants) among the Sámi which describes the spirit and/or personality of an individual, but they are not secret. It is considered a great honour to yoik another person, but one cannot yoik oneself, it's seen as hubris and lack of common sense to brag about oneself like that

Maybe they were in use in earlier times, I don't know. Too much old knowledge has been lost.
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Old 09-17-2011, 02:06 AM
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What are the rules for this? How would I know if I had one or not, or does everyone have it?
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Old 09-17-2011, 11:48 AM
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I believe everyone has a spirit name in one way or another, but most people never find out what it is. Not because they're "not worthy" or some such thing, but because they don't search for it, and because they don't see the need or use for it in modern society.

The usual way to find it is through a drum journey (guided by an experienced shaman if you haven't done it before), sweat lodge ceremony or similar. There are probably other ways too, but I don't know them.

As for rules, I'm not sure I understood that part. I don't think there are any rules, just actions and consequences.
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Last edited by Pygmy-Na'vi; 09-17-2011 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 09-17-2011, 07:29 PM
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So basically, I can't figure out what it is unless I do one of these sweatlodge things?

By rules I just meant, how do I know what it is
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Old 09-17-2011, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pygmy-Na'vi View Post
There are personal yoiks (wordless chants) among the Sámi which describes the spirit and/or personality of an individual, but they are not secret. It is considered a great honour to yoik another person, but one cannot yoik oneself, it's seen as hubris and lack of common sense to brag about oneself like that
Interesting. It seems to be related. I am aware that there seem to be different social rules about these intonations that represent ones spirit. Some cultures seem to put some emphasis on secrecy - usually because that intonation is said to have power (magic, mystical power, power over the one whose intonation it is,...). sometimes the secret name is then revealed to people one trusts with that power. In other cases it is something everyone knows and is just used as the regular name. In some cases the name can be found only by oneself, in other cases only by a shaman and in others one has both options. But the concept of some intonation - some form of sound that somehow represents ones spirits seems to be quite common.

Quote:
Too much old knowledge has been lost.
Indeed. It saddens me deeply as well. We do not know anymore what was once common. Many people of our times look thus for the remaining indigenous peoples, often native americans for guidance on that because they still have that knowledge. But we get confused by the different rules each culture has - who are we to follow if we have lost our own roots, can we/are we allowed to choose? To create something new? I heard the most appropriate way is to listen to the nonhuman world for what is appropriate for oneself, ones locality. So for me the feeling was, that I should not share it and I followed that, even though I did not know at that time about the existence of these different social rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moco Loco View Post
How would I know if I had one or not, or does everyone have it?
I think the "cheap" answer for this is, that everyone has such a name, and that one would recognize if one has knowledge of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pygmy-Na'vi View Post
The usual way to find it is through a drum journey (guided by an experienced shaman if you haven't done it before), sweat lodge ceremony or similar. There are probably other ways too, but I don't know them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moco Loco View Post
So basically, I can't figure out what it is unless I do one of these sweatlodge things?
I think there are different ways, I think the most common one is that "shamanic journey", but others do include sweat lodges or vision quests (basically you sit without food and sometimes without water in a spot in the wilderness for several days). In a physical sense these practices are borderline experiences - experiences that work towards a dissolution of the ego. If the ego is getting small or vanishes, ones soul can more freely connect to the world. One does not see anymore the rock as a stupid lump of crystals as the ego tells us. In that state I believe that the world can talk to us and we are more able (because we are not hindered by our egos) to listen. Personally I believe that also teacher plants (usually called "psychedelics") certainly fulfilled a similar role in some cultures as they also have a tendency to blend out the ego.
So i am not suggesting now to do any of these just out of interest for that spirit name or sound, but I think that it would be very rare to gain knowledge of it without going on a search for it in some way. What way this would be for you, I cannot tell you. Maybe you already know. In these things usually there are no recipes - no one can guarantee you that one specific practice works for all.
One important thing when searching is to be open and full of awareness - sometimes it seems one gets things that one did not expect or ask for in these experiences. One might look for an answer to some question and get an answer to a question one has not even encountered yet. Or one might search for a spirit name and instead gain knowledge of ones empathic animal (totem animal, spirit guide animal,...).

Greetings
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Stop terraforming Earth (wordpress)

"Humans are storytellers. These stories then can become our reality. Only when we loose ourselves in the stories they have the power to control us. Our culture got lost in the wrong story, a story of death and defeat, of opression and control, of separation and competition. We need a new story!"
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