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  #1  
Old 02-18-2012, 03:46 AM
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Default The Judeo-Christian Soul

I started this thread just for those of us who believe in ONE life, then our soul goes to it's reward. Here is a place for us to share our thoughts, hopes and theories on the "properties" of the soul.
Is it impervious to any physical danger, could those of us interested in Astronomy, go to a Pandora type of moon, or Jupiter, in our own solar System, stroll around and check the place out with no ill effects?
Does the soul have mass? If it does not have mass that FTL travel IS possible.
If these first two statements are true, where BESIDES PANDORA, would you like to go to check things out, and where INCLUDING Pandora, would you like to call your HOME when you were not traveling across the cosmos looking for the newest wonder to explore?
Niri Te
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Old 02-18-2012, 04:05 AM
Hapxìtu
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AH! The HUMAN SOUL ACCORDING TO THE JUDEO/CHRIST BIBLE?!?
Well, we know that as His perfected self, after the Resurretion, Jesus could walk through walls, and appear in many places. By His reasoning that we are allChildren of the Father, we could assume that the human soul could be limited by a body, if need be.
Reportedly, he was seen in many locations at the same time. Indicating that His spirit could operate outside the principles of time and space.
That would be one of many interpretations I have of SPIRIT
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Old 02-18-2012, 05:18 AM
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Not really a Christian personally in faith, but...

If I could VISIT (not call home for eternity), I would love to be shrunk down to the size of a subatomic particle, and experience quantum mechanics firsthand. I want to know what it feels like to be able to superposition myself, to travel between two places without going through a medium, to witness the intricate dance of quarks within baryons, of electrons within atoms, and if string theory is correct, to exist in 10 spatial dimensions.

Wouldn't mind visiting Saturn, either. To just sit within it's rings and take in the view.

I don't know why, but the utter mix of both chaos and harmony at the basis of energy and matter is just so alluring to me. I feel a longing to witness it first hand, through more than just equations.

Weird, I know, but that's who I am.

Honestly, Pandora is the only place I'd want to call home in the next life. My list of places I'd want to visit is likely in the thousands, but Pandora is the only place which calls to me in that way.
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Mike Malloy, a voice of reason in a world gone mad.

"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling." - Inception

"Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off." - Tyler Durden

Last edited by Tsyal Makto; 02-18-2012 at 05:26 AM.
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Old 02-18-2012, 05:56 AM
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If I could, one thing that I would like to do for "fun", is make a solar sail, but downsize it to the point where it would be a "solar Surfboard" for a human soul. Then, I would ride the shock wave of a Supernova for a few million miles.
Then for a more scholastic pursuit, I would study a Black hole FROM the surface of the Black Hole.
I like the Jungle a lot, and would love to live on a Pandora LIKE planet, if there were no place where Na'vi existed. I have lived in the Jungle before, and have lived in Tribal societies in several different locations on the earth.
Did you ever get to meet Dr, Axel Darling? He and I were friends, and would discuss certain theories on occasion over the phone when time zones separated us. I was building an experimental aircraft for him when he died.
Niri Te

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Old 02-18-2012, 05:32 PM
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Unfortunately, massless objects travel at exactly lightspeed, not faster, and experience no time. Black holes also don't have surfaces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto
If I could VISIT (not call home for eternity), I would love to be shrunk down to the size of a subatomic particle, and experience quantum mechanics firsthand. I want to know what it feels like to be able to superposition myself, to travel between two places without going through a medium, to witness the intricate dance of quarks within baryons, of electrons within atoms, and if string theory is correct, to exist in 10 spatial dimensions.
I'd like to do this too, albeit with several psychological changes so I'm not immediately driven mad by the general wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey.

As for a soul, well... I hope I get to live indefinitely, but I don't have any guarantees.
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Old 02-18-2012, 05:59 PM
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You need to do more reading of scientific papers Clarke, we ALREADY have one instance of preliminary data of something traveling slightly FASTER than light.
There are two accelerometer teams studying the event now. How many of the "big words" that Tsyal Makto used do you fully understand?
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Old 02-18-2012, 06:13 PM
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IIRC the verdict is still indeed out on those tests. One of the possible explanations is that relativity was not taken into account completely when they timed the experiment (they used a satellite IIRC, and at 17,500mph relativity begins to matter, ever so slightly, but it matters). I'm tempted to believe this.

If I let my mind wander a bit, I would like to think it is evidence of a FTL lepton which the neutrino was in the form of for at least a small time while in flight between the two detectors. Neutrinos have already been observed freely morphing between the three known leptonic forms (electron neutrino, muon neutrino, tau neutrino), maybe there's another form of lepton matter that can make it travel FTL? It might also open up the door to mass-symmetry theories (matter with inverse mass values to our standard model, and thus can't travel slower than the speed of light), with the neutrino possibly being a "bridge" between the two? Hmm.
__________________


The Dreamer's Manifesto

Mike Malloy, a voice of reason in a world gone mad.

"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling." - Inception

"Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off." - Tyler Durden

Last edited by Tsyal Makto; 02-18-2012 at 06:31 PM.
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  #8  
Old 02-18-2012, 07:01 PM
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Niri Te Is studying Na'vi REALLY hard
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto View Post
IIRC the verdict is still indeed out on those tests. One of the possible explanations is that relativity was not taken into account completely when they timed the experiment (they used a satellite IIRC, and at 17,500mph relativity begins to matter, ever so slightly, but it matters). I'm tempted to believe this.

If I let my mind wander a bit, I would like to think it is evidence of a FTL lepton which the neutrino was in the form of for at least a small time while in flight between the two detectors. Neutrinos have already been observed freely morphing between the three known leptonic forms (electron neutrino, muon neutrino, tau neutrino), maybe there's another form of lepton matter that can make it travel FTL? It might also open up the door to mass-symmetry theories (matter with inverse mass values to our standard model, and thus can't travel slower than the speed of light), with the neutrino possibly being a "bridge" between the two? Hmm.
I am SOOO glad that someone else on this entire group READS those studies.
What a breath of fresh air, THANKS for being a contributing member on this little thread ma Tsal Makto.
Niri Te
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:08 PM
Hapxìtu
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Default the nature of spirit

wow~ I can see that this thread is becoming a scientific discourse on the definition of spirit. no? Mathemetitions have identified a number of universes 10, 16, 21, according to their calculations.
I used to observed the internet dialogues that Niri Te would have with Dr Axel Darling, of JPL and project director for both Voyager shots. I was privaleged to be included in the discussions, Though I often walked away shaking my head.)
I am not belittling this study of mathematic probabilities, nor is it necessary to understand it for our salvation. (I think we are all agreed) but I hold to my artistic and totally unsupported theory that there are an infinite number of universes (universi?) that simply have not been calculated. If our spirit is a collections of sub atomic particles, one could perhaps surmize that they were organized (wave form?) as a whole. Organized as such, might they might convey sentience, and persist as a whole. It would be fun to solar surf, with or without a sail, or be on a Pandora like Eden, but not if I didn't retain the sentience to enjoy it!
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Old 02-18-2012, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niri Te View Post
You need to do more reading of scientific papers Clarke, we ALREADY have one instance of preliminary data of something traveling slightly FASTER than light.
There are two accelerometer teams studying the event now. How many of the "big words" that Tsyal Makto used do you fully understand?
All of them, thank you.

We have one instance of an experiment that almost everyone is fairly certain is flawed in some way. (The issue - and it's bigger than it looks - is finding exactly what went wrong) Additionally, it being right would involve re-writing basically everything we know about physics, and breaking almost all non-scientific philosophy. (Mainstream religions included) There is such a thing as margin of error, and until they get back and say exactly what's up, I'm confident that there is nothing that travels FTL in the universe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto View Post
If I let my mind wander a bit, I would like to think it is evidence of a FTL lepton which the neutrino was in the form of for at least a small time while in flight between the two detectors. Neutrinos have already been observed freely morphing between the three known leptonic forms (electron neutrino, muon neutrino, tau neutrino), maybe there's another form of lepton matter that can make it travel FTL? It might also open up the door to mass-symmetry theories (matter with inverse mass values to our standard model, and thus can't travel slower than the speed of light), with the neutrino possibly being a "bridge" between the two? Hmm.
Negative energy can exist, (via things like the Casimir effect) but it does wibbly* things, and I don't think even that's sufficient to let you do FTL. (Since the equations for Relativity dictate you need imaginary, not negative, mass for FTL.) However, I think introducing a fourth neutrino without a corresponding fourth lepton breaks various other symmetries as well.

*Wibbly to the point that even the physicists don't know exactly what negative mass would do, or whether or not negative-mass particles can exist. (Let alone what types.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ateyo leSyaksyuk View Post
I am not belittling this study of mathematic probabilities, nor is it necessary to understand it for our salvation. (I think we are all agreed) but I hold to my artistic and totally unsupported theory that there are an infinite number of universes (universi?) that simply have not been calculated.
There are an infinite number of universes, but they've been calculated. The phrase "sum over (all) possible histories" pops up in Quantum Mechanics a lot.
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  #11  
Old 02-19-2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
Negative energy can exist, (via things like the Casimir effect) but it does wibbly* things, and I don't think even that's sufficient to let you do FTL. (Since the equations for Relativity dictate you need imaginary, not negative, mass for FTL.) However, I think introducing a fourth neutrino without a corresponding fourth lepton breaks various other symmetries as well.
The Casimir effect isn't a good example of negative energy. It involves only the exchange of virtual particles that are constrained to within the system. Energy is only borrowed from quantum foam space time, where the "wobbliness" in time can allow energy to travel to another time for the use of virtual particle production, as long as the energy imbalance is quickly rectified (which it is when the particles annihilate).

There's no net endothermic or exothermic interactions within the system that lead to the creation of real particles that can exist without the system (Such as the nuclear decays, ionization, etc). And that's the only way true negative energy could be created, if it could leave the system and exist independently of it.

As for a fourth FTL lepton, yeah, that would destroy symmetry in the short term, but I'm sure it would start a hunt for other FTL particles, and if a negative-mass (or imaginary, whatever can go FTL) SM is put together...well, you've got symmetry again, and maybe a good candidate for dark matter. (For example, negative/imaginary-mass would likely create peaks in space time rather than valleys, which would explain a lot about the way galaxies are moving).
__________________


The Dreamer's Manifesto

Mike Malloy, a voice of reason in a world gone mad.

"You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling." - Inception

"Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off." - Tyler Durden

Last edited by Tsyal Makto; 02-19-2012 at 11:46 AM.
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  #12  
Old 02-20-2012, 06:58 AM
Hapxìtu
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I see a correlation between the Judeo Christan soul and the NiNa'vi soul.
Preface: Mika created a thread regarding Evolution, Immunology and Religion. She quoted someone else's experience, but it caused some thought provoking responses. The concern was whether the entire biologic "brain" of Pandora was using Na'vi and humans to ensure its own symbiosis and superiority. He misquoted or misinterpretted Toktor Grace by saying it's computational skillls were mathematic, rather than, interpretted by mathematics.
I would postulate that: the Trees and Vegetation function as a brain, as per Toktor Grace. But even if it relays electrical impulses, is it sentient? In Cameron's story, Pandora is referred to as the Child of Ewya. It can then be surmised that this entity, being unseen, has chosen to communicate with its entire creation through synaptic energy transfer. The planet (OK, moon) being the Child of Eywa, would then act as a biologic computer,conveying info but NOT sentient, in and of itself.
Also; my high school biology teacher told of a study where fine electrodes were taped to the leaves of various potted plants. (galvinic response, like a lie detector test) and the electrical impulses were measured on a particular scale. The impulses generated from the plants while lovely music was played, were relatively low. But when a technician hurled a potted plant to the floor, its transmissions went wild, but so did every other plants' response in the room.
Given that, I have also measured my own electromagnetic response using an ohmmeter. I can change that. I think it is called biofeedback. I had fun playing with that for a while , but hey, I'm an artist. I was watching the needle dance on the dial. I wasn't MEASURING anything!
It would seem to be that all biology has electrical energy that can be used to convey or expresses emotions. Even on our planet 'Rrta.
Therefore, if a sentient being had created Pandora and all its creatures and the Na'vi, and chose to sustain its creation, it would be a logical explanation that it would seek to communicate a sense of balance among its creations to ensure its longevity.
The method of communication between the Judeo-Christian God was verbal. For example; The Hebrews were given specific instructions for humanely killing creatures and honoring the blood sacrifice necessary to maintain life for humans. (This in preparation for our understanding of Christ's supreme sacrifice, for our spiritual sustainance.)
It must be perplexing and heart-breaking to Our Deity to see how far we have moved away from His Word. Whereas in the storyline, the Na'vi stay absolutely True to it. Perhaps if humans has tswin, we could understand God's purpose for each and every creature in his universe. The Native peoples of our planet, maintain the balance of nature WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF TSWIN. Cameron is reminding us that we are part of nature, and that it doesn't need to be overcome. As Jews and Christians can be reminded of our oneness with the Creator and our inclusion in the entirity of Creation.
ATEYO
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